What do you think of this setup?

[Darth Gator]

In a few weeks our pack will be having our Pinewood Derby. Our pack headcount breaks out as follows assuming everyone shows up on race day:

Tigers - 27
Wolves - 16
Bears - 16
Webelos I - 10
Webelos II - 6

We have GPRM 5.0 and will be using PPN to schedule each rank's race and then selecting the top 4 (plus any ties) into a rank finals (also using PPN) to determine the top three who will be awarded trophies. The top three from each rank will advance to the pack grand finals for selecting the top three fastest cars in the pack (using PPN) for trophys.

My questions are--

1) Is PPN the best methodology? I keep reading that it is usually better for smaller groups so I'm concerned about the Tiger rank being so large.

2) What other possible issues do you see with this?

Thank you in advance for any input you can share!

Jeff

[Stan Pope]

Sounds good so far if you are scoring on cummulative heat points ...

Assumptions: about 4 lanes and two rounds of racing ... 8 total heats per racer. This means that each racer could compete against, at most, 24 others. (This will almost certainly not break out evenly.)

I'd amend it as follows: Take top 7 of larger groups to a PN (or CPN) den final to award the den trophies and select pack finalists. This will clear up the opponent balance issues.

Also, run your W-II as 7 racer chart rather than 6.

The trophy accuracy issues are discussed and analyzed at http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwmevalc.html

[Darth Gator]

Thank you Stan. I knew you could help!

I should have mentioned that it is a 3-lane track, 2 heats in each lane, and we will be using points.

I'll take the top seven to the den finals and the PN/CPN those finals and then let those top three go to pack finals.

I'll run the W-II as a 7 racer chart and pick the top three from this round.

I'm assuming that if we bring 15 cars to the pack finals I will need to run two rounds. One round to determine the top 7 and then another round to determine the top 3. Is this the best way?

I'm a little concerned about the number of heats the pack finals cars will have. If they have 6 heats in their den preliminary, 6 heats in den finals, and at least 6 heats in pack finals. Plus any tie breakers. Should I be concerned about cars exceeding 20 heats due to lubrication break down?

Also, should I be concerned that the W-II will have 6 less heats than the other finalists? In the past , our pack has allowed all finalists to relube prior to the the final rounds to alleviate this concern.

Thanks again!!!

Jeff

[Stan Pope]

Sounds like a grand plan. A couple of extra rounds for the W-II would be nice, but the present generator won't do that! (You could run on the two most evenly matched lanes and run a 2-lane, 7-car, 6 round race omitting heats involving the 7th racer to produce 30 total heats with 12 runs per car!)

Relube between den and pack racing would eliminate concerns.

If boys stage their own cars, you may wish to run the oldest groups first. They can serve as a role model for the younger boys. Plus, they can probably deal with the wait between den and pack racing more easily than the younger boys... maybe even go home or out for snacks between den and pack racing?

[Darth Gator]

Great Stuff Stan!!! I love this website!

Thanks again for all your help!

Jeff

[Cory]

2) What other possible issues do you see with this?

One other thought, mainly just personal prefence:

I would take at least five to the finals for any group where you do P/F.

Four means that three will get trophies, one gets nothing. Five means the anyone standing up there w/o a trophy has some company.

[Darth Gator]

Thanks Cory, Based on Stan's suggestion we will bring 7 cars from each rank to the rank finals. Then we will bring the top three in each rank to the pack finals.

Jeff

[Darth Gator]

If I can ask another question--

Scenario -- we have a tie for 7th place after one of our first rounds between two or more cars.

Is it better for me to run a tie-breaker to get down to 7 cars so we can use PN in the finals or should I allow more than 7 to go to the rank finals and use PPN or CPN???

Maybe it's more of a question of what would you do?

Thanks, Jeff

[Stan Pope]

If I can ask another question--

Scenario -- we have a tie for 7th place after one of our first rounds between two or more cars.

Is it better for me to run a tie-breaker to get down to 7 cars so we can use PN in the finals or should I allow more than 7 to go to the rank finals and use PPN or CPN???

Maybe it's more of a question of what would you do?

Thanks, Jeff

Strong Preference: Run PN-7 or CPN-7 for finals. The finals need the extra accuracy. To get there ...

Preference: Tie break to select 7th racer, using a PN chart if possible. The more the merrier, up to a point.

Alternate: Drop those tied for 7th place and run 6-car on a 7 car chart. This would be more accurate than running a PPN-6 car chart.

Good racing,
Stan

[Darth Gator]

Sounds good. Thank you Stan!

Jeff