I know you have already replied. But there are a few other points you can make here.
1. The verification / validation issue is big (huge). Especially when you have kids staging the cars, or near the track.
If you cannot guarantee that the track has not been bumped, changed, during the race, you can verify the times are correct, but validation of the track / equipment is impossible.
I have seen (have the times to prove it) a track bumped slightly - and the average times for a certain lane go up by .008 sec for the following heats.
If this happens in a timed race (track bump) - the only "fair" thing to do is start over.
Let's say (as happened to my daughter) your car had only run 2 heats, and another car had run 3 pre-bump.
Now your car has to run twice more on the "slower" track conditions, and the other car 1. Throwing out the slowest time actually makes this situation worse (as the car with 3 good runs gets NO penalty), and the car with 2 clean runs gets the penalty of a bad heat in the average).
And most times, you cannot tell the track has been bumped (I only noticed the day after because we were using race replay, and the camera was rolling).
If this happens in a points race, the bump has much less affect on the race results.
And I have seen timer errors (especially with cars with more "pointed" front ends).
My daughter's car won one race, but registered an incorrect (slower) time because the timer didn't register the finish until the wider part of the car body crossed the line.
Didn't catch this until reviewing the next day's video as well.
Bottom line is, most tracks / equipment are NOT set up properly, and are NOT protected from mishaps during the race, and are really NOT monitored by experienced track judges (who have experienced all the things that can and do go wrong).
Points scoring makes this much less of an impact.
2. There is an excitement factor to the final round with points. More exciting for the kids and the observers.
So - whenever we have the time to do a finals round (based on the scheduled length of the race and # of cars) we have elected to run points for the verification / validation issues, and the excitement factor.
When we are pressed for time - we run average times (keep all times - don't throw one out).
Help Me Answer This Parents Question About Points Racing
Re: Help Me Answer This Parents Question About Points Racing
Thanks Dave, excellent points.
Our Derby was last weekend and it was another overall success story.
We raced in the format described in the OP.
I have another example of why points was the better choice..
One of our Bears was racing very well but had a wheel/axel problem in his 5th race. Car came in last that race and had a very slow time.
They were however able to make repairs and get back up to speed in their final three heats.
As a result of points, he qualified in the top seven and ultimately won the second place Bear trophy.
Scoring by times would have eliminated him from making the top 7 into the finals.
Thanks to all for your replies.
Our Derby was last weekend and it was another overall success story.
We raced in the format described in the OP.
I have another example of why points was the better choice..
One of our Bears was racing very well but had a wheel/axel problem in his 5th race. Car came in last that race and had a very slow time.
They were however able to make repairs and get back up to speed in their final three heats.
As a result of points, he qualified in the top seven and ultimately won the second place Bear trophy.
Scoring by times would have eliminated him from making the top 7 into the finals.
Thanks to all for your replies.
- Darin McGrew
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:23 pm
- Location: Knoxville, TN
- Contact:
Re: Help Me Answer This Parents Question About Points Racing
IIRC, Stan is working on the validation issue. AIUI, his idea is to run a set of "standard" cars down the track on a periodic basis, to verify that their times are consistent, and thus to verify that the track is still reasonably consistent.davem wrote:If you cannot guarantee that the track has not been bumped, changed, during the race, you can verify the times are correct, but validation of the track / equipment is impossible.
But the bigger issue remains: What do you do when the track fails validation? Do you start over from the beginning? Do you try to "put the track back the way it was" and then start over with the first race after the last successful validation?
- gpraceman
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4926
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
- Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
- Contact:
Re: Help Me Answer This Parents Question About Points Racing
Not necessarily. Depends on whether you are using all of the run times or are throwing out the slowest.Himey97 wrote:Scoring by times would have eliminated him from making the top 7 into the finals.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
- Stan Pope
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 6856
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
- Location: Morton, Illinois
- Contact:
Re: Help Me Answer This Parents Question About Points Racing
You are "on track", Darin. Actually, I'm looking at two issues. First is some kind of change occuring during racing on one track. The second is a realistic "normalization" of times from two (or more) separate but similar tracks.Darin McGrew wrote:IIRC, Stan is working on the validation issue. AIUI, his idea is to run a set of "standard" cars down the track on a periodic basis, to verify that their times are consistent, and thus to verify that the track is still reasonably consistent.davem wrote:If you cannot guarantee that the track has not been bumped, changed, during the race, you can verify the times are correct, but validation of the track / equipment is impossible.
But the bigger issue remains: What do you do when the track fails validation? Do you start over from the beginning? Do you try to "put the track back the way it was" and then start over with the first race after the last successful validation?
Why? These are issues related to alternatives for high volume, walk-in, short stay racing. The competition may be open for hours (or days)... longer than we would want a few hundred cub scouts sitting penned up waiting for their next turn to race. For such a competition to succeed, I think that a provision for detecting and acting upon track changes and or compensating for actual track assignment during competition will be requirements.
There are a lot of issues to deal with in such a plan, and I'm mapping them out. But this is one of the most difficult aspects.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"