Oh...I need Help...

[PinewoodPerformance]

Has your mouth ever a written a check your butt can't cash? I think I did. I called the District Council after not having a district race in 2-3 years and asked why, by the end of the conversation I was running the district race for 2005... sigh, although I am excited. He kept talking about looking for Bowlers to donate trophies...sigh, I would not want a used Bowling Trophy with the cap changed if I were to win Districts. Anyway that is beside the point. I am in over my head. I have to do fund raising to buy a track, ours is terrible, buy a timer/finsh line and figure out how many lanes I need, what rules to post... you know the drill. I am looking for opinions on the best method for running these races. It is going to be held in the Westland Mall, that much we know, Our District is SW Columbus and all of Madison County in Ohio, so I am expecting 60-100 boys. I am looking at a 40' Aluminium track with 3 lanes maybe 4 whichever makes things less complicated, I need a lot of imput and could use any wisdom or tips you may have, I am going to get this rolling early! As I have about 11 months to plan. Also if you have any links to products or concepts that would be appreciated!

[Stan Pope]

At 11 months, you are only two months ahead of the recommend Scout event planning cycle. Off to a good start, tho. By the way, congratulation!

Some background would be helpful (to you and us). The last few times your district had a pinewood derby ...
What was the registration fee?
How many boys registered?
Was registration limited in any manner?
What competitions (e.g. racing, design, unusual design) were included?
Was the competition divided by age?
How many trophies were awarded?

If you can find some folks involved in organizing the most recent races, talk to them and find out why the races stopped happening. The reason could have been lack of anyone willing to chair the event or could have been a "blow-up" that necessitated a "cooling off period." It could be helpful to know the history ... learn from other's mistakes.

These answers don't keep you from doing something else, but they may tell you what expectations are. And, if the proposed event is similar, its familiarity may make recruiting a committee and a staff easier to do.

Sometime early in the game you (with your professional staff advisor) will need to construct a budget. When you do this, you will need to have the major event parameters in mind. The budget will include all anticipated expenses and revenues, and should aim to approximately break even. A small committee can be very helpful in identifying and sizing those major event parameters. The should include space needed, event duration, competition categories and trophy needs, other recognition (e.g. patches) equipment needs, expected participation.

Think about whether your derby should be an "elite event" which involves just the top two or three cars from each pack, an "open event" that accepts whoever wants to come, or something in the middle which allows a large percentage of the boys to participate, but they still have to "earn their way" there. (My preference is to maximize participation, and I think that happens when participation criteria are selective but not very selective ... about four boys per grade per pack with the result that about 25% of the registered cub scouts in your district participate.

For track and electronics, you would have to have a large draw to buy a track for the event. You're looking at over $600 (probably far over) for quality track and electronics for one track! And, you do want quality! In most Scout events, the registration fees are expected to cover all costs, and this would include tracks. Do the math! You may be better served by arranging a "lend" or a "rent" from a local pack and include setup help/direction in the deal. In fact, you might even recruit staff heavily from such a pack. If you think in terms of multiple tracks, then the "lend" arrangement looks a lot more attractive! (My district's packs lent four Piantedosi tracks for the day, each with electronics, and 5 packs staffed a grade race on one of the tracks.) Borrowing a track works well, because tracks don't "wear out" ... they "age out" from the time spent in storage.

On the trophy question, I'm with you. I needed 57 trophies for my district races (5 grades times (5 racing trophies + 3 race car design trophies + 3 unusual design trophies) + 1 grand champion trophy + 1 open class (adult) trophy. My trophy budget was only $500, which was about $1.25 per expected registration. I shopped the local suppliers for a package price, including the trophies and the inscriptions on the trophies and they helped size the trophies accordingly. They weren't huge trophies, but there were a lot of them and each one included the words "Wotamalo District Pinewood Derby"!

Plan to formulate and publish rules and event categories early enough that packs can include the district's rules in their own pack events. It is helpful if you don't deviate too far from past local customs.

I'm sure that I've missed something, so give another shout as questions arise.

[PinewoodPerformance]

Some background would be helpful (to you and us). The last few times your district had a pinewood derby ...

What was the registration fee?
He said $2-3, I am thinking $5.00

How many boys registered?
60 or 70, I am hoping for more, by sending out flyers to the packs, and trying to build some excitement.

Was registration limited in any manner?
They Did it both ways, Open and top 3 or 5, I have not decided. Probably open.

What competitions (e.g. racing, design, unusual design) were included?
Just racing

Was the competition divided by age?
By rank

How many trophies were awarded?
15 - top 3 in each class (12) and then the top 3 over all (3)

[MathGuy]

Has your mouth ever a written a check your butt can't cash? I think I did. I called the District Council after not having a district race in 2-3 years and asked why, by the end of the conversation I was running the district race for 2005... sigh, although I am excited.

I have many questions and concerns about our Council Races, but until I have time to actually commit to helping and organizing, I felt it is best to keep my mouth quiet. If I did bring up a question or issue, I would see the "your volunteered" coming a mile away. (As a den leader, assistent cub master, and Pack derby chairmen, I can't be effective at any other task.)

Think Tom Sawyer....Biggest advice is to RECRUIT AND DELEGATE. Get the committee formed and committed too. Put a information up and your phone number in any district website or mailings. Don't buy your own track, see If you can find a pack(s) with better tracks donate the use of theirs. Again find others with interest in having a district race is going to help you share the load. If you do form a committee then you have to compromise with the other parties who do work. Stan's advice is always going to be key, but you might burn yourself out if you try to do it all yourself.

[Cory]

Congratulations on your new job!!!

On one month's notice, having learned that no one had stepped up to the plate, two Den Leaders in my Pack agreed to run our 2004 District derby. I was not that involved, but my understanding is that they did a pretty good job. Perhaps Panzer could comment, he is in our District.

That said, eleven months seems like a long time, but it will go very fast.

They charged $6 per Scout, up from $5 in previous years as they had a deficit to make up. Reportedly, one of the local Packs was quietly keeping the concessions proceeds each year, thereby using the District derby as a fund-raiser for their Pack.

Our Pack sells popcorn to raise money. It's a lot of work for a few key parents, esp. the so-called Popcorn Colonel/Kernel. We have about 75 boys and I believe their annual net is usually from $2000 to $3000.

[Stan Pope]

You've gathered a lot of good advice already!

Here's a consideration that may help manage the scale of the event. If you plan for 100 and 400 show up, you are probably in deep do-do! The event will take much longer to finish than most are expecting / willing and you will have major satisfaction issues.

You can put a top limit on participation by requiring "qualifying" at the pack events. First time out, you might set this tighter than you would prefer, maybe something like top two in each category in each grade. This, together with info on the number of packs in the district will tell you just "how bad" your participation problem can be and you can plan to handle at least that many.

Once the district gets its PWD act going again, you can grow participation by inviting the top 3 or top 4 ... until you reach just past the rate that peaks participation. This plan also gives more purpose and excitement to the pack races!

An excellent experience for a smaller number of boys (and parents) will help the event grow. A bad or disappointing experience will kill it. Maybe it is like building a PWD car where it isn't the best attribute that determines success, but the worst!

We hold a Cub-O-Ree ... a one day outdoor fall event structured generally like a day camp, but more focus on ACTIVE stations. It started with 75 boys the first year. 150 the next, then 280, and now regularly serves over 400 to 500 boys ... about 25% of our registered Cubs. Starting small helped us understand how to serve that many boys and provide an experience that caused past participants to sell it to others.

[PinewoodPerformance]

Here is an intermingled question... If I get 100 Boys, and have a 4 lane track, what is the most fun way, in your experience, to run the heats. Considering I don't want to be there all day, but I am also not trying to get done in 90 minutes. It looks like 4 lanes is going to be the best for us price and package wise with the super track.

[Stan Pope]

Some aspects that I think are important:

Everyone should get a reaonable number of contested heats. After losing 5 straight heats, a boy can tend to "get his dauber down."

Faster cars might reasonably get more heats.

Late arrivals should be considered ... folks are coming from farther away and, possibly, to a location that they aren't familiar with. Try to assure that your method doesn't "lock them out" if they are a half hour or so late. Depending on the method that you use, they can be accomodated easily with only a small "tardiness penalty", not be accomodated at all, or, even, get a benefit from being tardy.

Plan for the boys to race their own cars ... they are racers, not spectators, and they earned the right.

More later.

[PinewoodPerformance]

Stan, I am putting you on speed dial!

[Cory]

Stan, I am putting you on speed dial!

The number is 1-800-STAN.

[Darin McGrew]

Stan, I am putting you on speed dial!

The number is 1-800-STAN.

Actually, in most area codes in the US, his hotline is just SOS-POPE

Although, you'll usually hear his wife answer the phone, and she only ever wants to talk about one thing...

[MathGuy]

I second Stan's recomendation to have a qualifying such as 1st and/or 2nd in Packs rank. Questions is how many packs in your council?

More on the delegation and getting other packs involved.

1. Failing to Plan = Planning to Fail.

2. You need to select a month NOW, and communicate to Packs so that they can plan there PWD to be advance of that. IE let the Pack know that there PWD has to be before April if the district race will be in April. Pack's are putting together their schedule now for the new year, don't assume other pack's have PWD on the same month as yours.

3. Rules - Is there a common set of rules for the district? (Maybe if there was an old set use them.) If there are none, maybe the rules should be the PWD kit's rules. I would keep them intentially liberal this year, but ENFORCED. Weight, length, excessive wheel modificationes etc. 2005 rules should be distributed a year in advance of a race. People would be rather upset if someone came racing with a set of Razor blade wheels or a car weighed 6 ounces, etc. If possible you would like to inform the packs of the district's rules so that they can conform.

4. Plan on all day event for you. I don't know how you can race a hundred boys in less than a full day.

5. Scheduling Methods are way too preliminary in my opinion to decide on. (Consider, yes, decide on, probably a bit early.)

6. I would recruit a committee from other Pack's Derby Chairmens. (Get a few cubmaster's numbers from your district and find if they can refer some people that are willing to help.)
versus
I would think a 3-5 person district PWD committee would be able to function well. Why do you need a committee? Because there is allot of work, and you want this to continue in future years. Stan must have some thoughts. By having a few people from different pack's involved, you they can bring in more day of volunteers. If you are not comfortable recruiting, find someone who is. "You can't do it yourself." Once you recruit a committee, you might find that someone other than yourself might want to be the committee chair. It is always better to support someone else in a role than to support yourself in a role. I would target 5 people for the committee, and expect maybe 2 not be able to function well. And hope the work get's done by 3. It beats having the work and planning done by one.

Did I mention Recruit?

[PinewoodPerformance]

Actually according to our district guy all packs do have to have their Pinewood Derby's in the same month, and this year it was February. Some comittee meets, decides and send it out in a newsletter or something, this is just what I was told, I think I will have it 4 weeks from the end of the pinewood derby for our pack, that should give em all time. My rules are pretty much going to be consistant with the box rules and state that you have to use Official BSA nails and wheels, and the nails may be modified, and the wheels may be trimmed but not to a point or thinnned out just trimmed to get the burr off and wheel strait... all lubes are fine as long as they are not wet or dripping (no grease) etc.

[Stan Pope]

Although, you'll usually hear his wife answer the phone, and she only ever wants to talk about one thing...

She's a Scouter! Many years the District Program Chairman and has served as Camp Director for day camp a few times.

I think that Darin is referring to the rumor that she answers, "This is Barb. You call _that_ a gun?" with her best Aussie accent.

On the subject at hand ... I'd recommend aiming at just under 4 hours maximum for any boy. A family with more than one (that happens frequently), might be in for longer if groups are staggered. We ran 5 rank/age groups and staggered them at 1 hour intervals, oldest first. One inspection crew can do the whole job. Parents can see critical races when they have boys on different tracks.

If you use the right methods, you can handle late registrations and changes and you can make the transition from end-of-inspection to start-of-racing in the time it takes to conduct a short opening ceremony.

[Stan Pope]

Actually according to our district guy all packs do have to have their Pinewood Derby's in the same month, and this year it was February. Some comittee meets, decides and send it out in a newsletter or something, this is just what I was told,

Critical issues on setting a pack PWD date include
1. availability of kits (year round via mail order catalog)
2. events with which you want to coordinate, such as district or council derbies, and
3. What else the pack is doing.
The district leadership can't force the unit's derby into any window. They can encourage; they can induce; but they can't force.

The council PWD date, if any, is set by the responsible council committee; the district PWD date, if any, is set by the responsible district committee. Each of these are carried out in a group gaggle to minimize conflict between events. You may have input into that decision, but you need to communicate your date needs and preferences to the district commttee (usually) via the district executive.

Next find out when the mailing is usually sent and what it contains. Does your council already have a Council Derby? If so, they probably have rules that you will want to stay very close to. If your council does not have a derby and does not have a policy regarding derby rules, then you have some flexibility. A good starting point is what the district previously used and what the packs are using now. Maybe make a few phone calls and get copies of what they pass out to their boys ... not necessarily from all of the packs but from a healthy sampling.

In any case, you need to be in the loop on district derby communications ... not finding out after the fact that someone put their districts rules in the council newsletter in a manner that it was ambiguous regarding their applicability to your district. That gets everyone confused.