Wheel size

[fat elvis]

Just recieced our Council's rules for this year race. They have raw wheels measuring 1.195 - 1.200, and you cannot use wheels smaller than 1.180. My rough measuring puts my wheels at 1.85, are their measurements high or do I have small wheels? If so it looks like a very light sanding is all I can do if they check at the race.
Fat Elvis

[WarpSpeedINC]

Sounds like they are trying to prohibit wheel machining, as only a few wheels here and there will totaly clean up at 1.180.
Unfortunatly, it makes it even tougher for the normal parent / scout team to compete with someone who searches for the largest wheels, then machines them true to the 1.180 minimum.

The tighter they make the rules, the bigger the separation gets between first and last, and the more drama created at inspection time. This is supposed to be a fun and competetive event for the kids, no need for a nascar type tech line!

Warp Speed

[Teeeman]

Wow, that is getting very specific for check in!

At the same time, without this rule, you can shave the wheels a LOT.


A good balance, to me, would be to allow everyone to turn the wheels down to whatever size is agreed upon that will clean up ANY wheel.

1.17?
1.16?

I would think most wheels would clean up by 1.17, but if you are allowed 1.16, that should clean up most any molding?

-Terry

[Wingman]

Where does the "tread" markings typically stop?

[WarpSpeedINC]

You can safely go to 1.160, and still have the outer tread marking visible.

Warp Speed

[pinecarpro]

Warp,

You are dead on about rules

It seems like rules are made by dads to try stop some family’s who win every year.

The rule that all 4 wheels must touch is a joke it doesn’t matter if your dad works for Nassa or a bus driver anyone can do it. Plus most of all give 4 nails and wheels to 6 year old tell him to press them in the slots and see if all wheels will touch!!!! and with a 3 wheeler you can be lucky, not with 4.

This is also why there are problems at districts and councils and lot of places are doing away with them for that reason.

Next wheel location not every kid wants to win some places have awards for various looks and designs. Let them do what they want and if it is for speed just look at these boards. Just like Stan said it makes some great thinking.

How did the good builders on this site get good I bet you unless they were taught it was from getting beat first then it was watching and trying and good ideas are inspired by others. That’s what makes this fun and great for kids to learn.

That’s how I got good at it. I got beat first. There was a builder who won all the time I had ideas and they told me they wouldn’t work now they try to copy my cars. There will always be some one better so when I help kids I tell them what I know, what I think and if you really feel it in you gut try it. Because what work for me was stepping out of the box.

There is a lot of people here and I think we should try to get scouts to frown on custom rules and set there own and say these are what is going to be used at all sanctioned events.
.
I think the rules in the kit are fine maybe a rule for wheels nothing to crazy but then again never found any of those crazy designs to work on my cars and if you are clever you can make that stuff on a drill press or drill. So let them try

[Stan Pope]

Wonder what would be a good machinable coating to add to the tread and bring the wheels "up to size"?

[pinecarpro]

Stan,

I spent some time on this, sorted tires and built the surface up and machined them it was about 8 years ago forgot what I used and didn't have any luck with it the car was slower plus the wheels I did sort the smaller were faster so I gave up on that. But I thought about it again because you think it should work! It must be slower to start.

[pinecarpro]

Stan,

Just thinking I use a 32' track I would like to try it on a longer track. I have thought about putting 3 or 4 timers on one lane and make alonger track and see if different setups change things like a car that wins at 32' might loose at 48' against the same car. I think this is very posible.

[Stan Pope]

Stan,

I spent some time on this, sorted tires and built the surface up and machined them it was about 8 years ago forgot what I used and didn't have any luck with it the car was slower plus the wheels I did sort the smaller were faster so I gave up on that. But I thought about it again because you think it should work! It must be slower to start.

I think that it would only be useful as an alternative to a too-small-to-be-machined wheel! I'd take the wheel to the small limit in either case.

[Stan Pope]

Stan,

Just thinking I use a 32' track I would like to try it on a longer track. I have thought about putting 3 or 4 timers on one lane and make alonger track and see if different setups change things like a car that wins at 32' might loose at 48' against the same car. I think this is very posible.

That should allow you to gather more info per run. Be sure to use "low density light beams" for the intermediate gates ... you don't want 'em to slow the car down.

[Humvderby]

I think that it would only be useful as an alternative to a too-small-to-be-machined wheel! I'd take the wheel to the small limit in either case.

Stan, I thought you have always been an advocate for larger diameter wheels? I believe you have always stated larger diameter wheels and smaller wheel bores are faster.

I remember some time ago you described a car you built for some sort of "open" or "dad race" you entered. I believe you cut the wheels out of some type of circuit board material and you used, I believe you said, needles for axles. I think I remember you said the wheels were a fairly large diameter compared to a scout wheel. Although this is to the extreme it is consistant with your theory of a larger diameter wheel and smaller axle - wheel bore are faster.

The way I understand your quote above your saying go with a smaller diameter wheel. Have you changed your thinking or does this have more to do with the weight reduction as a result of the smaller diameter wheel?

[dknowles67]

if your dad works for Nassa

Did you mean NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Adminsitration)?
My dad (retired) and father-in-law (still going) worked for NASA.
Real rocket scientists, both of them. Helping their grandkids to win Derbies.
Sorry, a little touchy about that down here on the space coast.

[fat elvis]

Okay, I checked around and found out this rule has been in place awhile, but as one Pinehead said, " You've been to Council, did they check?, no so just do what we do ignore it." Now I have a morale dilema, bad rule and they haven't checked in the past, so go ahead and give my boy every advantage he can get, or obey the rule like a good Scout and know others will possibly knock my son out a race by that slight advantage.
Fat Elvis

[pinecarpro]

Sorry if I offended.


Did you mean NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Adminsitration)?
My dad (retired) and father-in-law (still going) worked for NASA.
Real rocket scientists, both of them. Helping their grandkids to win Derbies.
Sorry, a little touchy about that down here on the space coast.

Yes I did

What I meant was some people have a huge advantage to resources and equipment do to there occupation. Whether you have millions in tools or only a drill any body can lift one wheel.

Sorry for the spelling too,
Pinecar