Taking heat for last yrs win.....What to do?

[mbb]

Got some heat at my pack mtg the other night over last yrs win. A sermon about this yrs race is for the kids, etc, we dont want to see any cars that look like they came from NASA, etc. It was targetted at me since we had both easily the best looking car and fastest last yr. But we spent a lot of time on it, 10 minutes here and there for several months, whereas most others spent an afternoon or so at most.

I always thought the point was to take time and do it with the kid and teach him. The pack leader and apparently some other parents seemed to think that the kid should do it all by himself and you should just do what he tells you he wants. If that was the case, no one but the 12 yr olds should bother to show up.

I think if we had a [crummy] looking car that looked like a 6 yr old made it no one would have cared. But we had a nice , glossy, smooth looking car.

My Tiger did do a lot of the work, but so did I of course. He cant run a bandsaw or drillpress or melt lead at 6 yrs old .Or even polish axles by himself, and neither can any other kid under 12.

Last yr I designed the car, Melted lead into it, cut the basic shape out on a bandsaw, he glued balsa on for shape where I showed him. I carved it to shape with a razor knife, he rough sanded it to shape with 60 grit , together we filled it with filler, we both sanded it smooth, I fiberglassed it to get a hard, smooth, surface, He sanded it, I helped sand it, and cleaned and prepped it for painting. He sprayed the paint with me telling him exactly what to do, I sanded out his imperfections afterward if needed.

He helped with axle polishing, doing part of every step, applied all the stickers,and decals, installed the wheels, lubed the wheels, rolled it in, I test rolled and bent the axles for alignment where needed. I explained to him about 3 wheels, weight placement, etc so he could understand what we were doing.

Who here thinks I stepped over the line? Im considering having a [crummy] looking car this yr just to keep people off my back.

[PWD]

I have dealt with this for nine years. Not much you can do. Our cars are simple but fast. My kids do most of the building as I have built tools and techniques to make it very easy for them to do the work.

I run the bandsaw but since they are simple wings it is just one slice. But I really don't think it matters. If you win you are going to hear the comments.

Does not sound like you went over the line. You might consider hosting a workshop and have your boys involved in runnning it.

[doct1010]

Does not sound like you went over the line. You might consider hosting a workshop and have your boys involved in runnning it.

Bingo! Precisely what I chose to do after one too many back-handed comments. For the past three years I have hosted a lecture and workshops. My son is my hands on assistant. During the pack lecture/info portion he demonstrates. At the formal workshop he mans a station with an adult. I am pleased to say the quality and competition has improved as a result. The comments on the other hand never cease.

[FAST Racing]

mbb,
NO ONE knows your son's abilities better than you. When they are
just getting started they NEED more help. As their confidence grows
THEY will WANT to do more on their own.

I echo PWD's comment to offer to help or hold a workshop. But
there will always be comments/jabbs/innuendo.Shame that the
days of "great job!" or "could you show me how to do (fill in blank)?"
are getting fewer & fewer.

NEVER feel guilty for spending extra time with your Family!

Just my opinion..... I'll get off my soapbox now..........

[OneHour]

... when someone tells me that my son's car looks too good to be painted by a 7 years old ... I simply told them that it is not hard for a boy to spray paint! They quiet down! Speed? We don't dominate because we share all secrets and tips! I simply provided them for the past 4 years ... there are 4 Ws to winning: Workshop, Weight, Wheels, and Wishful luck! I even put together the tips and tricks book together for everyone to use. Result? One competitive pack where the separation between 1 and 20th place is .15 sec!

As long as you and your son know what you have done, then that's all that matter! Have fun! The difference between 1st and 20th place is how much your son (and you) put into the car to fine tune it. Other than that, everything is pretty much common knowledge!

- L

[mbb]

Thanks for the support, I may just say the heck with them and proceed. We have a month left till our derby, and we started in Dec, were a little behind but can still have a cool car, just maybe a little rougher than last yr. I dont want them to disqualify on a grey-area technicality out of spite though.

So far this yrs car looks like this. My son drilled the axle holes using the axle jig, glued the balsa on, and helped carve it to rough shape . Its ready for rough sanding then filling/

[Gameday]

mbb,

As others have mentioned, the best response would be to offer to hold workshops. I was worried about the same thing you're facing so I proactively jumped on this right at the end of last season. I worked with the Cub Master to let him know I was interested in doing that. He was one of the guys in attendance and several parents saw firsthand how to do things that the kids could be heavily involved in. Even though my son had a very slick looking car, there were absolutely no negative or backhand comments, particularly since I spent part of the workshop showing them exactly how to get a perfect paintjob with hardly any effort.

By the way, I was day dreaming today about building a new car for the Open class at District (in 6 weeks). The design I was mulling over was nearly identical to the car you guys have built. It looks fantastic. Nice job.

[Doug Piranha]

I have had similar comments.

I inform them that my dad has passed away and that I remember helping on the parts I could. He did not teach me to run a band saw or table saw at 6 years old but, I sure enjoyed knowing he was helping me build my race car and they are some of my fondest memories....True story!

They shut up every time.

Also, I think that most of the people that say these things are the ones that feel bad that they either don't help or don't know how to help and trying to help them by workshops or guidance to this web site is constructive help.

Kurt

[Need for Speed]

Both of you need to keep your heads up. You are doing the right thing.

The parent/Scout who puts out the extra efforts reap the rewards.

His mine is a open book that is willing to learn from you.

[Go Bubba Go]

This is one of those times where integrity really pays off. When you have truly split the labor and supervision with the boy in a fashion that you believe is age-appropriate, the "jabs" are still a nuisance but you should not let them "get to you".

I believe you need to set the bar high for your son (and the Pack), for which he will require additional assistance when he is very young. Over time, the car should become almost entirely his (while still improving from year to year). The only place I draw the line on this is with the band saw (I think Stan commented once about risking cuts and scrapes, but not amputations!). This year we made the first "big cut" with the band saw and "Luigi" used a coping saw for the rest. BTW Thanks Guys, I believe your influence helped me to find better ways for him to do more and more of the car himself!

By all means consider hosting workshops, even yet this year. One of the really cool happenings at our Derby this year is that in 4th place overall (behind the Champ and my 2 boys) was the boy whose Dad came to my house for an hour and got a "Pinewood download" firsthand from me (I think I gave him a extra copy of MaxV's movie also).

BTW I got to talking with the Dad of the boy who surpassed us this year (I am in a way glad this happened) and he seems quite interested in joining me in hosting workshops and helping to "elevate the pack" next year, so to speak. I think this would be cool.

[psycaz]

Just go out and do your best. Offer to help anyone who would like help.
That's all you can do.

Don't let others keep your son and you from enjoying what this is supposed to be about - doing your best and doing it together.

[Littlejon]

Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me. Actually, it sounds like you are doing something very right in that you are sharing the joy of building a car and bonding with your son. Regardless of how the races turn out, that is something he will remember for the rest of his life.

I have two boys in our Pack, with my youngest being a tiger this year. As the Chartered Org. Rep, I also have to be wary of the races looking like I was too involved as well. Since our Pack is only 3 years old, we don't have a lot of issues like this.... yet, but we have also tried to alleviate any possible problems by adding a "parent/guardian" race. Basically, the parents or guardians or really whoever can buy a kit for $10 and build their own car(s) to race against each other. The cars have to meet all the same requirements the boys' cars do, but can be as elaborate or simple as you want. We did this to 1) help raise a few extra dollars for the pack and 2) give the overzealous dads a chance to go head to head and let the kids enjoy their races. We hope this will also allow the kids to do more with their own cars and let the parents/guardians focus on theirs.

We are also planning on holding a workshop. A few of our kids are single mom kids and a lot don't have access to the tools to cut out cars like they want, so a few of us with the tools have offered to cut out any design the kids want (within reason) so long as the kids draw it up and do the rest.

Like you, I don't let my boys use my power tools and since my bandsaw seems to have a mind of it's own sometimes, I don't even like for them to be in the shop when it is on! My oldest is starting to show a fondness for woodworking, so he is allowed a little more leeway with tools as he learns, but their safety is my first priority.

Liek others have said, I wouldn't worry too much about the comments by other parents. Sounds like you are doing a good job.

[gpraceman]

Maybe we should start awarding the trophies to the child/adult team. That would reinforce that this is supposed to be a joint project. Of course, the kids should be able to do what they are capable of and in a safe manner.

I agree, I wouldn't let a kid near a bandsaw (nor some adults). I much prefer using a scrollsaw, as it is safer. The kids can start out "helping" with the straight cuts, while the adult guides the block, and then work up to being able to help with the curves. Eventually, they can cut the block themselves, with an adult looking over their shoulder.

[BigSilver]

What is the Cub Scout Motto? Do your best! I to have had to deal with many comments over that past three years as I am the Cub Master. My son has helped within his ability each year and has learned a lot. We host three builders work shops and have all he secrets and speed tools available at the workshops. We make it very clear that no one who attends a workshop will go away with a slow car. Most rewarding moment in one of these encounters involved two parents who cornered my son as a Wolf and thoroughly questioned him on how he put a tricolor paint job on his car. He had practiced on several blocks of wood prior to painting his car using spray paint and had really worked hard at getting it right. The parents jaws dropped when we went through all the steps including masking and offered to teach them at next years workshop.... Tell all of your secrets and offer to help. Some are simply not willing to make the effort and are not going to get the message. Just "Do your best." Otherwise you will be teaching your son to allow pear pressure to dictate his level of achievement.

[Down-N-Flames]

Well we won last year and took the top Raingutter race last fall. They all know I love pinewood derby so I am the "expert."

One of the things I did this year was actually put rules out. Yep they didn't really have any, so they do now. (Set one) With in the rules I put tips and suggestions. One of them is that "this event is for the kids and parents working together to build a car. Let your son do as much as they are capable. Don't do it for them of leave it up to them to build, work as a team."

I didn't restrict 3 wheelers or wheel base and not only allowed it, put it in the rules that they don't have to have all touch so everyone knows.

As far as paint, people know with me as I show them what mine looks like.

I put on Two open workshops and had two different dens over for a night. Only one to use my bandsaw was me and the scroll if the parent had used one before I was okay with. most just had me do it. Every one that came left with four drilled holes (one higher after asking if they wanted to do it and explained why). They also left with polished axles. One Webelo had never even touched his axles before (I think he was the one I glued the axles in after he lost a wheel twice last year)

Pressure is on us this year as we told them all how to make them and explained all the "secrets" and it is Austin's last year. The good thing is we should have some competitive cars out there and I won't feel bad about losing and any of them. People were extremely thankful for me opening up the garage. If we do win (yes "we") I will feel good as we will have won against great competition.

I even set up all the old cars to help some kids get ideas at the workshop(all showed up with just a block). One den was the tigers so it helped them to see what I was talking about including weight.

I will tell you I had about as much fun working with the teams as I will on race day. Every one of those kids loved their car and their parents! I had a great time asking each kid what color they were picking!!!