What's the Hot setup?

[unclegus]

OK,

Here's the sixty four dollar question for all of you who have this down to a science. If you were going to build a car to race on any track, USA, what would be your set up? CM, Height of car, wheel/axle adjustment and any other nuances you'd care to share that's not a closely guarded family secret. I know pretty much what I'd build, but I'm still crawling in knowledge compared to those who walk the walk and talk the talk. I'd like to see just how far off or close I am....

[Stan Pope]

See the bottom half of this page from Cory Young's website: http://members.cox.net/pinehead/humor.html beginning with the line "Last summer, I wrote my college physics professor asking for some Pinewood Derby car design advice". You may have to read between the lines, though.

[unclegus]

W've been winging it for three years with a first and two thirds in council. I was just looking for a little reassurance. Guess I'll do what I do, and you can do what you do...........As always, "There's no free lunch."

[Stan Pope]

Sorry, no offense intended.

What you asked is what the several thousands posts on this board have been answering... and it may take that many!

[doct1010]

W've been winging it for three years with a first and two thirds in council. I was just looking for a little reassurance. Guess I'll do what I do, and you can do what you do...........As always, "There's no free lunch."

Well you are obviously doing something very well! A top ten in a Council event is impressive considering the comp.

Lets make a deal. You present your ideas on a"hot setup" and I am sure others will follow and offer more than the reassurance you sought. Deal? Oh...and everything here is free but worth its weight in gold to the pineheads amongst us.

[sporty]

The 1st post to the 2nd post from initial posting. Various alot with what one is looking for from others.


If one has already been doing well, perhaps pictures and info on what you are doing 1st. Before others can follow suite.

Different levels of advise and tips for the various levels of PWD racers & builders.

There is enough info already in the older posts that you may want to look at. The search engine works well also.

But atleast provide some track times, track length and some basic info of what you are currently doing.

Are you wanting to go faster, improve more ? Many do not get to the level you are already at.

So, please share more and many will join in.


Sporty

[knavekid]

To be able to run on any track, you would be limited in what you can do to your car and still meet all of the rules (if that is possible). For a car with four wheels tracking, axles in the original slots, and no wheel mods, these are basic to building a fast car (in my opinion):

1. Axle closest to the end of the block goes to the rear.
2. Make the car as light as possible in the front and plan to add weight in the rear.
3. Remove flashings and bumps from the axles, then smooth and polish them.
4. Add weight in the area above or behind the rear axle to bring the total weight near 5.00 oz. and so the CM is about 1" in front of the rear axle.
5. Align the axles so the car tracks well, whatever your tracking approach.
6. Add dry lubricant, typically graphite, depending on your rules.

After these things, you can get more creative, but expect to spend additional time squeezing every last bit of performance out of the car.

[doct1010]

To be able to run on any track, you would be limited in what you can do to your car and still meet all of the rules (if that is possible). For a car with four wheels tracking, axles in the original slots, and no wheel mods, these are basic to building a fast car (in my opinion):

1. Axle closest to the end of the block goes to the rear.
2. Make the car as light as possible in the front and plan to add weight in the rear.
3. Remove flashings and bumps from the axles, then smooth and polish them.
4. Add weight in the area above or behind the rear axle to bring the total weight near 5.00 oz. and so the CM is about 1" in front of the rear axle.
5. Align the axles so the car tracks well, whatever your tracking approach.
6. Add dry lubricant, typically graphite, depending on your rules.

After these things, you can get more creative, but expect to spend additional time squeezing every last bit of performance out of the car.

Not sure I understand or agree that to run on any track one is limited in design and build. What rules? I would agree what works on a short wood track may not be optimal for a long aluminium, especially the 100+" monsters, I believe Mike Doyle, raced on. You have outlined good basic building technique, however there is a ton of room to get creative.

[Darin McGrew]

Not sure I understand or agree that to run on any track one is limited in design and build. What rules?

Absolutely.

First, the track and the rules are independent issues. The same track can be used for two races with different sets of rules, and the same set of rules can be used for two races using different tracks.

Second, no car can meet every set of rules. As an obvious example, a car with BSA wheels won't be allowed to race in our derby, but a car with CSB wheels won't be allowed to race in most BSA derbies.

[unclegus]

No offense taken. I'm just so smothered for time right now, I don't know if I'm coming or going. I get up at four in the morning, drive 62 miles to work one way, get home, work on rewiring my brothers house, get to bed by nine, and then repeat six days a week.. I've tried to read all the posts and it's like yes, build the car between one and five ounces. I just try to use common sense and cut the wheat from the chaff. I'm one of these let's cut to the chase kind of people. Regardless of what the definitive set up is, you still have to build it and make it work. I guess if I want really clear cut answers I'll talk to Doc Jobe and Jerry Petrotto. That's where I've always got my direct answers so far. I was just looking for a little different perspective on things to try to improve the car ....Thank you anyway. Off to work....

[derbster]

Try this for starters

viewtopic.php?t=3134

[unclegus]

Thanks,

You know, I'm not too up on the really technical points. My strong suit is no compromise....Period... I can work on a wheel or axle for hours and if I'm not happy with it, at any point it goes in the trash and I start over. If it takes me thirty tries to get my axle holes where I'm satisfied with them, then it takes thirty tries.... or forty.....doesn't matter. If it doesn't suit me, it's gone. OCD at its finest......
My grandson and I race where the wheel base has to stay 4 1/4", but you can move it from stock location. I always move it back as far as I can. This year will be our first attempt at using Tungsten. We've always used lead. Try getting a balance point of 5/8" in front of the rear axle with lead and keep the car 7/16" at the thickest with the front wheels that far back....
Seems when we have not finished in front, it has always been a tungsten car.....And we really got creamed on a really long aluminum track two years ago at district. Luckily the council was an open that year and the we built another car that finished third.. Just luck.... My attempt at railriding was not good either. Sucks not having a track to test on.....
Since this is our last year, and time is of the essence, I'm just going to do what I've always done. Of course we all know if you do what you always do, you get what you've always got. I was hoping to find something that I wasn't doing that would make a difference. Seems I always over look the obvious....
As a side note:
When someone asks me about building one of these cars, I get a piece of paper and a pen and start talking and drawing pictures. I tell everything I know. That's just part of being a true West Virginian. If you are going to beat someone, you want to beat them when they are at their best, not when they are at a disadvantage. Thanks for the help and see you in the funny papers.

[Gameday]

When someone asks me about building one of these cars, I get a piece of paper and a pen and start talking and drawing pictures. I tell everything I know. That's just part of being a true West Virginian. If you are going to beat someone, you want to beat them when they are at their best, not when they are at a disadvantage. Thanks for the help and see you in the funny papers.

I like your attitude. I do the same thing. I've spent countless hours holding workshops and having dads/sons over to my workshop to go over the concepts. I'd rather my sons have strong competition than cake walks.

[unclegus]

Agreed. Kinda like kissing your sister.... 4:14 AM on Saturday. Time to go to work....

[pack529holycross]

Thanks,

You know, I'm not too up on the really technical points. My strong suit is no compromise....Period... I can work on a wheel or axle for hours and if I'm not happy with it, at any point it goes in the trash and I start over. If it takes me thirty tries to get my axle holes where I'm satisfied with them, then it takes thirty tries.... or forty.....doesn't matter. If it doesn't suit me, it's gone. OCD at its finest......
My grandson and I race where the wheel base has to stay 4 1/4", but you can move it from stock location. I always move it back as far as I can. This year will be our first attempt at using Tungsten. We've always used lead. Try getting a balance point of 5/8" in front of the rear axle with lead and keep the car 7/16" at the thickest with the front wheels that far back....
Seems when we have not finished in front, it has always been a tungsten car.....And we really got creamed on a really long aluminum track two years ago at district. Luckily the council was an open that year and the we built another car that finished third.. Just luck.... My attempt at railriding was not good either. Sucks not having a track to test on.....
Since this is our last year, and time is of the essence, I'm just going to do what I've always done. Of course we all know if you do what you always do, you get what you've always got. I was hoping to find something that I wasn't doing that would make a difference. Seems I always over look the obvious....
As a side note:
When someone asks me about building one of these cars, I get a piece of paper and a pen and start talking and drawing pictures. I tell everything I know. That's just part of being a true West Virginian. If you are going to beat someone, you want to beat them when they are at their best, not when they are at a disadvantage. Thanks for the help and see you in the funny papers.

With respect, I think you are over-complicating the process by obsessing over a single detail such as axle holes. IF you think about what you just said, your "primary" car got creamed and your "backup" car won third place by luck. Perhaps if you observe this in a more analytical way, your backup car outperformed your primary car - that isn't luck, in my opinion. I believe it is a result of something in the setup of that car that is significantly different than the primary car that "failed" to perform as expected. I will give you a prime example. Today was our testing day for next weeks derby. Brand new aluminum 49 foot track, Microwizard Timer, and riser kit. My 9 year old and I sculpted a beautiful car, hollowed out and balanced to perfection, and his quickest time in practice was 3.971 in 25 runs. My 4 year old took a dremel tool to a leftover 1/2 height slab, stuck about 20 stickers on it, and we weighted it to exactly 5.00 udnerneath with no internal weights. It runs 3.790 and even had one run of below 3.300.
Sometimes it is more the sum of the parts than any single gargantuan effort put into a single component that makes the difference.

Nicholas