Bore prep

[FatSebastian]

While no pro at the video action, Dalton did the shooting and it is was it is.

It seemed to me that he did a pretty good job. Informative - thanks for posting.

[sporty]

I will be looking for a few people, who would be interested in testing and sharing data of my new bore prep process.

You would need to detail what you did, and track times comparison to what you previously used or did.

Just beacause I have found good results and feel its a good process does not mean that others will have the same results.

I am willing to send 1 prep set for you to prep the wheels like seen in the video. Then either your oil or lube.

I do ask that you be what I would consider a advanced builder. For being able to repeat the alignment / wheel removal and reapply process as accurately as possible for good data.

The data you would then post here.

Limited number of people.

PM me if interested.
Sporty

[murphken]

During the Holiday Season, my Cub and I did some work on the bore prep using Sporty's method. We have two sets of wheels and one set of axles completed. Here are my topline observations:
- We have been using the carbon fiber rod sanded-down to 0.052"
- We use micro mesh 4,000,6,000,8,000,12,000 paper and then use plastic polish and fuzzy pipe cleaner. We used water with the sandpaper. The water helps lubricate the sandpaper against the plastic surface.
- We have the luxury of two processes to complete this work: rotate the wheel and only move the carbon fiber rod/sand paper/pipe cleaner back and forth in the bore or keep the wheel stationary and rotate the the carbon fiber rod/sandpaper/pipe cleaner. Rotating the wheel seems to work best because you have a more uniform application to the inside of the bore.
- The results seen under a microscope are impressive compared to just using plastic polish and pipe cleaner.
- The plastic polish/pipe cleaner method leaves "smoothed over" imperfections compared to the micromesh/plastic polish method. Also, the bore is very straight and uniform.
- The micromesh/plastic polish method is time consuming and requires a lot of patience from a Cub and dad.
- I have tried in vain to capture these microscope pictures for viewing on this site. The inside bore gives a glare on the pictures that makes the picture useless.
- The 3M lapping paper is miserable to work with > too stiff. We tried to use adhesive around the carbon fiber rod with no success. The lapping compound just unwraps itself. Any suggestions Sporty?
- The axles were prepared with micromesh and mothers polish and look like glass. Beautiful!
Conclusion: Bore prep with micromesh and plastic polish look great compared to just pipe cleaner and plastic polish. The microscope shows the difference. Also, the axles look great and are much smoother and shiny with this "full prep". If I have more time, I will try to input some more definition. I am sitting in O'Hare and need to get to a plane!
C ya, Murph

[sporty]

Thanks for the update and info.

I'm glad you like and feel this is a very good process.


I use the adheasive backed micro-mesh and that has stuck to the carbon fiber rod well for me.

What rod did you start out with.

You modified to .052. I am interested in this. i'm only using .050 rod.

When you get time pm, me I would like to ask a few more questions and so forth.

Again thanks for trying this process an providing some initial thoughts on this.

Darn to shiny for the camera or the scope, lol

Sporty

[Ten Thumb Tom]

We have the luxury of two processes to complete this work: rotate the wheel and only move the carbon fiber rod/sand paper/pipe cleaner back and forth in the bore or keep the wheel stationary and rotate the the carbon fiber rod/sandpaper/pipe cleaner...

Hi Murph - what do you use to rotate the wheel only?

[murphken]

We use your typical Chinese made Harbor Freight mini lathe! Pretty easy for a Cub to use for basic stuff.

[sporty]

I have sent a few bore prep rod kits to a few people and we should be seeing there comments, testing info in the next few days.

I have a few more to send off, due to running out of supplies.


I have to add something in here folks.

This was my idea alone, I did not copy anyone. this is still a work in progress, but soon should be pretty much done.
I want to make it clear for any vendor atempting to sell this process or close likeness without my permission or trying to work around me. Will certainly be facing legal action.
I am not a vendor and I do not plan on being a vendor. but I also do not need to see people make money off my hard work either.

This is intended to be used and shared for people wanting to do the process. Not for some vendor to come along and think of a way to clone it or work around me and try and sell it !

I'm sorry that I have to say these things, But these days, anyone that comes up with a new idea or a better tool or something on there own. The next thing you know someone is selling it or making it.

This is not directed to or about any one vendors or mfg of goods.

To much of a buzz has been coming my way. So I have to address this.

Now on the other end of things, lets wait and see what the others who were sent some, think and the test and data from that.

Sporty

[murphken]

Sporty,
We have been really happy with the bore preparation procedure after moving from a wire that you originally used to a carbon fiber rod. The structural integrity of the carbon fiber allows a person to have better control of the process.

Also, we really like turning the wheel instead of turning the rod/micromesh as per your procedure. By rotating the wheel, we feel that the surface preparation is more uniform over the bore area. Another advantage of rotating the wheel is that the OD of the rod/sandpaper is not quite as critical. We use less sand paper > approximately 2/3 of distance around the carbon fiber rod because we are focusing contact in a smaller area of the circumference. Additionally, the use of water during the procedure allows the rod and sandpaper to move in a more easy manner.

The only drawback is the amount of time it takes to prep a set of wheels. Most Cubs have a tension span of about 20 minutes. This preparation process takes time to do it right. We like to have our Cubs do most of the work on their cars if possible.

My Cub and I would be glad to help you with sharing data on "test vs. control" bore prep. We have several cars and a track/timer that could be used for collecting data. Send me a PM if you need some support. A good testing protocol (maybe a DOE) backed-up with a good statistical evaluation of data is what we could provide.

Murph

[murphken]

Forgot one thing, I have a plan to make a jig to hold/center a wheel and rotate with a hand held drill. This will be a perfect complement to support the carbon fiber rod and sanpaper technique.

[sporty]

Thanks,

Many changes have taken place since the inception of the initial posts for improvement.

The wire rod, gone, carbone fiber smaller rod in.

i have a friend who has built a jig and is doing one for me. So I hope to soon to have the jig and pics.

The current process, the kids can do in about 5-10 minutes for a set of wheels. the jig might add more time, but improve and reduce the potential current issue of equalized pressure on the bore with the rod / sand paper.

I am surprised on the wet sand though. I was finding backwards issues with the wet sand, that fine of sand paper especially in the 8,000 and 12,000 for us was not improving the process with the wet sand.

It was actually damaging the sand paper and causeing squeeking sounds on the 12,000 grit. My eye balls seems to think it lookd duller with wet sand.

The micr-mesh sand paper, as it naturally wears with the process, gets finer and becomes sub micron quality.

Thats why the times have been changed and adjusted to benefit that for the wheel bore.

Most exciting part of my trial and error and progress. Has been some who dove right into this as soon as my early post and info was shared and have gotten great results and impressed with it.

Sporty

[sporty]

I have gotten some exciting reports on the bore prep rods. i have sent out a 2nd batch to testers.

They are suppose to be posting info soon from the 1st batch I sent out. Some have been delayed.

But keep a eye out for updated and indpendent testing info.

Sporty

[Jeff Piazza]

Right on cue: my independent testing consists of bore images under the microscope, at http://www.piazzafamily.org/pinewoodderby/borestudy/. Of the bore prep methods I tested, Sporty's certainly produced the smoothest bores!

/JEP

[Kenny]

You did a fine job documenting your experience Jeff, thank you.

I'd suggest a good can of dry air might help in the microphotography dust situation some, but it's hard short of a clean room at 200 x! Are you cutting each polished wheel in half to photograph it? (Just curious really)

And, Mr. Sporty, I must say this bore prep method of yours is pretty convincing. I've always been a fan of Micro Mesh stuff, although it is a wee bit pricey, it has no match as far as I know. Heck I'm tempted to use your process to work some scratches out of my readers

Seriously, good work! Thanks for sharing.

BTW: You need a good name for this treatment...seriously, it deserves a name.

[sporty]

It's just called sporty's bore prep.

The goal was somthing that a adult could prep, the micro-mesh on the rod and the kids could do , no rinse, no mess of worries to get out the polish residue.

I do go finer, but as mentioned. going to the sub micron level is hard yet and tricky , without causing issues of going through or damaging the diamon lapping film.

I also think going even finer, may be better suited for oils also.

Keep the data and info flowing guys. Jeff did a great job, good info, and open minded real testing and comparison.

some have also taken the sporty bore prep process and did micro-polish after it also.

But the basic process here, is not mess of polish all over the place flinging. Kids can do it. Parents and other can use it as a solid base point and go from there, taking it to the next level as I have mentioned in earler posts.



Thanks


Sporty

[sporty]

While we wait for the beta testers to post there info.

i wanted to add, that I have gone to a little bigger rod. That I feel does a better job. I was able to do some wheels this weekend and I have not tested them yet.

But visually I can tell they are a little better than the other ones.

Sporty