Drilling axle holes with camber and toe.

[Stan Pope]

http://www.stanpope.net/camdrill.htm, another "calculator" web page!

This one computes spacers to use with drill press and fence for drilling axle holes for specific camber and toe angles, and some notes on their use. The web page does not explicitly describe how to drill a hole with both camber and toe or to drill a hole with positive camber, but a thoughtful reader should easily make the needed intuitive leap (or is that "intuitive baby step"?)

[Kenny]

Nice job Stan.

You didn't mention anything about correct tongue placement

[Stan Pope]

Nice job Stan.

Thank you, Kenny.

You didn't mention anything about correct tongue placement

That is another one of those "closely held Derby success secrets!" However it isn't needed for this process.

[Humvderby]

http://www.stanpope.net/camdrill.htm, another "calculator" web page!

This one computes spacers to use with drill press and fence for drilling axle holes for specific camber and toe angles, and some notes on their use. The web page does not explicitly describe how to drill a hole with both camber and toe or to drill a hole with positive camber, but a thoughtful reader should easily make the needed intuitive leap (or is that "intuitive baby step"?)

Stan,

Your timing is impeccable! I was planning to start testing in the next week or two for the optimum angle for negative Camber. In addition I would like to find the best angle for Drilling a positive Camber with Positive Toe -in to allow for using straight axles. If possible I would prefer to not have to bend Axles for positive Toe-in.

Thanks for the calculator, it should help make things easier!

Humv

[iceman61]

Stan, you never cease to amaze me. Great job! I'm starting to think you bleed pine tar.

If you had only been a week earlier I wouldn't have had to come up with my own block for drilling canted holes at 2.5 degrees I made on a table saw out of a 2x4.

[GravityRacer]

One can easily drill a hole that lines up for the camber and toe one wants in one shot. I have a copy of the cartesian to spherical coordinates transformation matrix right here in this math book. Seriously, that isn't necessary...just figure the angles you want and place the shim at the appropriate angular location.

[Stan Pope]

One can easily drill a hole that lines up for the camber and toe one wants in one shot. I have a copy of the cartesian to spherical coordinates transformation matrix right here in this math book. Seriously, that isn't necessary...just figure the angles you want and place the shim at the appropriate angular location.

Yes, I think you have the idea to put the camber spacer just above the toe spacer that is closest to the drill.

Now the bonus question: Was that, as I described in my opening post, an "intuitive leap" or an "intuitive baby step"?

The second bonus question: What do you do if you planned for the toe spacers to be 5/64" and 3/32", but realize that you need the camber spacer to be 3/32" also? If you have only one set of drills, the answer is not "Break your 3/32" drill in half!"

[*5 J's*]

Now the bonus question: Was that, as I described in my opening post, an "intuitive leap" or an "intuitive baby step"?

I'll go with "intuitive baby step"

The second bonus question: What do you do if you planned for the toe spacers to be 5/64" and 3/32", but realize that you need the camber spacer to be 3/32" also? If you have only one set of drills, the answer is not "Break your 3/32" drill in half!"

Well you could phone a friend.... or use a 7/64" and 1/8" for your toe spacers.

[Stan Pope]

Right you are, *5 J's*! Well done.

Tells me I was successful. Lead to the opportunity for discovery, then wait for the "Ahah!" moments to erupt. But if it was too easy, perhaps next time I should stop a hair earlier.

[*5 J's*]

If “Necessity is the mother of invention” is Stan the father?

[sporty]

I have shared with Stan and a few others the past several months, the process that I use and recommend.


I actually have about 3 to 4 methods that all work well. however the data is good that stan provided in providing a reference for what size rod or drill bit, provides what cant / camber.


But I do not use that process. Stan since i have shared one of my processes with you. How does that process compare you you're process in regards to rod / drill bit cant data ?

I asume doing the process differently, also means that the rod or drill bit used, will have a different camber or cant to the car ?

I like to have a wider base for the car, when its on it's side during my drilling process for the canted axle wholes. Since I have found its easy for a little wiggle during the process to cause the canting to be off or uneven from one side to the other.

sporty

[*5 J's*]

I can say I didn't have much luck drilling holes in the body yesterday.

I was trying to get an accurate and consistent way to drill the axle holes in the body. I first tried to "align the drill press" via the method documented via Stan - however - I couldn't get consistent holes with the #44 bit. I'm not sure if the bit is spent or if it is the grain of the block, but just as the bit hit the wood you could see it walk just ever so slightly - but enough to skew the bit and therefore the hole it drilled.

So next - I got of the Pro-Body Guide figuring that would hold the bit from wandering - yet I was still getting up to maybe a degree of variation in camber. I was trying to drill the rears with 1.8 degrees of negative camber but placing a shim under the opposite side I was drilling. At first I was trying a drill bit as a shim - but thought this may have been the source of my inaccuracy speculating that the drill bit may compress into the block as I clamped the pro body guide to the block. Next I used some small (1/4" wide?) flat feeler gauges as shims - still wasn't getting consistent or accurate holes. So off to the hardware store for new #44 drill bits - but I still think I have an issue with my process for drilling camber into the block using the pro body guide as I was only seeing maybe 1/2 degree of error in toe.

With proper tools - how accurately can you drill a #44 hole into a pine block? Consistently less than 1/2 degree of error max? Consistently 1/4 degree of error max? Consistently 1/10 degree of error max?

[Pinewood Daddy]

With proper tools - how accurately can you drill a #44 hole into a pine block? Consistently less than 1/2 degree of error max? Consistently 1/4 degree of error max? Consistently 1/10 degree of error max?

You need to use a carbide drill, which is stiffer. I haven't tried drill holes on an angle just for the reasons you are experiencing. I had a couple of steel blocks made at work that have the angles I bend the axles to. I think I can bend an axle to 1/4 of a degree accuracy but I doubt I could drill that close. Plus if your holes are higher or lower in the pine block that will affect your alignment.

[sporty]

With proper tools - how accurately can you drill a #44 hole into a pine block? Consistently less than 1/2 degree of error max? Consistently 1/4 degree of error max? Consistently 1/10 degree of error max?

Less than .005. In fact for my if I see it more than .003 i start over with a new block of wood.

It's allot less time consuming and easier for me to get it right, then to spend hours adjusting a axle or trying to shim it.

a few things to look at. I would be happy to share one of my current process, if this will help you.

Then did you get a hsn block ? checked the table for levelness ? not just side to side but also front to back ?

I at times have forgot to check the front to back and had a issue.

But it's possible, that the process you are using, if the bit is good and the drill chuck is good and everything is level. That you might check to see if the block is square or if you are getting a little movement when you go to drill.

Is the drill bit just exstending out the juck the length of the axle ? sometimes having the bit to long can cause this issue also.

I do a starter whole about 1/18th into the wood before I do my canting drilling process. This may be something to try, but it sounds like maybe you did.

Sporty

[Stan Pope]

I have shared with Stan and a few others the past several months, the process that I use and recommend.


I actually have about 3 to 4 methods that all work well. however the data is good that stan provided in providing a reference for what size rod or drill bit, provides what cant / camber.


But I do not use that process. Stan since i have shared one of my processes with you. How does that process compare you you're process in regards to rod / drill bit cant data ?

I asume doing the process differently, also means that the rod or drill bit used, will have a different camber or cant to the car ?

I like to have a wider base for the car, when its on it's side during my drilling process for the canted axle wholes. Since I have found its easy for a little wiggle during the process to cause the canting to be off or uneven from one side to the other.

sporty

I don't recall the discussion earlier, but suspect it involves spacers between the side of the body and the drill press table. Correct me if I am wrong.

The purpose of the fence is to provide a "wide base" (body "bottom" against fence instead of body "side" against table) that will prevent that wiggle. (The face of the fence must be perpendicular to the drill press table. Error adds to error in the camber angle.) Note that the only spacers between body and table affect the length dimension (toe angle) and toe uses a much longer base, typically 3.5" or more! So, the procedure as described is applicable even to 1/4" slabs from the original block.