Alignment Tool Comparisons

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:37 am

The Drawings are fine.

Yes I had the teeter toddler issue before.

In a ideal world. We are all great builders and tiger scout cubs have great hand and eye coordination. But they don't and were not great builders. Lol
I have to use, make a starter whole, or I get shifting or non dead center axle wholes. I'm just glad I found a way that works well for me.



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4607
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by gpraceman » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:39 am

whodathunkit wrote:And haveing tryed useing the (..... And ...... ...... tools as well.
Guys, you can mention the different tools. I just don't want things getting out of hand, like a few years ago, with the overt promotion of certain tools as the be all and end all. Keep in mind that there are still some vendors that sell completed cars, which I feel strongly against, so I don't permit links to their sites or for them (or people acting on their behalf) to advertise here. There are tools at different price points and each can be quite useful. I feel that we can discuss those in a balanced manner.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4607
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by gpraceman » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:46 am

P.S. I do highly recommend that members use the Spell Check button before hitting the Submit button. Not everyone is a good speller, so it helps to have that tool available to make sure everyone is understanding what someone is trying to communicate. Fortunately, I use a browser (Firefox) that spell checks words as I write and highlights the problem words, which makes things more convenient.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:51 am

gpraceman wrote:P.S. I do highly recommend that members use the Spell Check button before hitting the Submit button. Not everyone is a good speller, so it helps to have that tool available to make sure everyone is understanding what someone is trying to communicate. Fortunately, I use a browser (Firefox) that spell checks words as I write and highlights the problem words, which makes things more convenient.
Sorry, I got poor spelling. After a few words, when I'm mobile, my phone won't even show what I typed. Don't know why.

I'm awhare of your previous post comments. I hope I have done well with phrasing and balance of things. Hope so. Trying for you and all.



User avatar
whodathunkit
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Forgan, OK

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:33 pm

:offtopic: Randy,

If I may.. I like how Sporty spells were alot alike when it comes to spelling.
And I just don't want to get on someones bad side because of my bad spelling as well.

As for ( ..... & ...... ...... tools . I just diden't know if i could type in useing there names.
Sorry for all the dots guy's.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

User avatar
LightninBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:09 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by LightninBoy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:15 pm

I use the Silver Bullet with a cheap drill press. My solution for accurate bit centering and preventing bit wandering is:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2828a855/=u0b3bc



User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6888
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by Stan Pope » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:29 pm

LightninBoy wrote:I use the Silver Bullet with a cheap drill press. My solution for accurate bit centering and preventing bit wandering is:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2828a855/=u0b3bc
I got some brad point #44's and think that they drilled holes that are (effectively) larger than those from "the usual" bits. The difference is detectable by how easily axles stick in the holes. I could not detect a difference in the drill size. I suspect that the cause is that the sides of the holes are "cleaner". It could also be that my drill press has a bit of runout (0.001+/-), meaning that the circle described by the edge cutter on the brad point ends up adding half of the runout to the hole radius. (The edges of "the usual bits" aren't sharp enough to cut the edges so cleanly!)

Have you noticed anything comparable?


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:40 pm

Stan Pope wrote:
LightninBoy wrote:I use the Silver Bullet with a cheap drill press. My solution for accurate bit centering and preventing bit wandering is:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2828a855/=u0b3bc
I got some brad point #44's and think that they drilled holes that are (effectively) larger than those from "the usual" bits. The difference is detectable by how easily axles stick in the holes. I could not detect a difference in the drill size. I suspect that the cause is that the sides of the holes are "cleaner". It could also be that my drill press has a bit of runout (0.001+/-), meaning that the circle described by the edge cutter on the brad point ends up adding half of the runout to the hole radius. (The edges of "the usual bits" aren't sharp enough to cut the edges so cleanly!)

Have you noticed anything comparable?
I seen about the same thing. I always wondered myself. Lol.
I bought several cost ly drill bits in the #44 size and in #43 and so forth. Local Fastenal store.
Carbide, HSS, ect.
Certainly some flexed less or cut better. Still ran into same issue.
I think most of the long term or regulars here know. I try a wide range of stuff and test and tinker allot.
I even tried different drill presses, and I certainly think a great drill press makes a difference.

Then. Even just drawing the lines on one side of the wood and doing the other side of the wood. I had to make sure I measured and drew the same way or that would create a accuracy issue.

But now, I try these days to real back a little bit. And think what a tiger cub scout can do.



User avatar
whodathunkit
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Forgan, OK

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:17 pm

Ok, if we can mention the tools by name's it's probably safe to say that most have seen the videos
for using the mentioned tools such as the block or the silver bullet.

In one of the drawings, I posted showing how these tools are used in the videos.
You'll also see a drill bit such as to what LightingBoy, has posted as well.
The drill bit seen reqires a rigid tool holding to prevent breakage & should not be use
in hand-held drilling applications.

Is there a wrong or right way to using the block or silver bullet tools
for rigid tool holding and drilling techiques?
Image


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

User avatar
LightninBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:09 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by LightninBoy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:16 pm

Stan Pope wrote:
LightninBoy wrote:I use the Silver Bullet with a cheap drill press. My solution for accurate bit centering and preventing bit wandering is:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2828a855/=u0b3bc
I got some brad point #44's and think that they drilled holes that are (effectively) larger than those from "the usual" bits. The difference is detectable by how easily axles stick in the holes. I could not detect a difference in the drill size. I suspect that the cause is that the sides of the holes are "cleaner". It could also be that my drill press has a bit of runout (0.001+/-), meaning that the circle described by the edge cutter on the brad point ends up adding half of the runout to the hole radius. (The edges of "the usual bits" aren't sharp enough to cut the edges so cleanly!)

Have you noticed anything comparable?
I've noticed that with the carbide stubby bits - but that was also more likely a runout issue on my press. All I can say is that this McMaster #44 bit drills a perfect hole for this application. I can put an .0865 pin gauge in by hand with good resistance. Max-V speed axles (.0870 if I recall correctly) go in with just the right amount of "bite".

In general I'd say that any of these uber sharp carbide bits expose runout more so that the standard bits. So, I should also point out that I spent a lot of time addressing the runout on my cheap drill press which in part involved upgrading the chuck (still just a $20 chuck). And that may be contributing to the success I'm having with these McMaster drill bits in drilling the proper sized hole.

This all basically reinforces something Sporty said earlier about the Silver Bullet / Block being just 1 half of the solution. The other half of the solution is good drill press setup and drill technique. That will take some time and practice. However, based on my experience you don't need a specialized and/or expensive drill press like a Proxxon to be successful with the Silver Bullet / Block.



User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:29 pm

LightninBoy wrote:
Stan Pope wrote: I got some brad point #44's and think that they drilled holes that are (effectively) larger than those from "the usual" bits. The difference is detectable by how easily axles stick in the holes. I could not detect a difference in the drill size. I suspect that the cause is that the sides of the holes are "cleaner". It could also be that my drill press has a bit of runout (0.001+/-), meaning that the circle described by the edge cutter on the brad point ends up adding half of the runout to the hole radius. (The edges of "the usual bits" aren't sharp enough to cut the edges so cleanly!)

Have you noticed anything comparable?
I've noticed that with the carbide stubby bits - but that was also more likely a runout issue on my press. All I can say is that this McMaster #44 bit drills a perfect hole for this application. I can put an .0865 pin gauge in by hand with good resistance. Max-V speed axles (.0870 if I recall correctly) go in with just the right amount of "bite".

In general I'd say that any of these uber sharp carbide bits expose runout more so that the standard bits. So, I should also point out that I spent a lot of time addressing the runout on my cheap drill press which in part involved upgrading the chuck (still just a $20 chuck). And that may be contributing to the success I'm having with these McMaster drill bits in drilling the proper sized hole.

This all basically reinforces something Sporty said earlier about the Silver Bullet / Block being just 1 half of the solution. The other half of the solution is good drill press setup and drill technique. That will take some time and practice. However, based on my experience you don't need a specialized and/or expensive drill press like a Proxxon to be successful with the Silver Bullet / Block.
:thumbup:
Great post !
My run out on my $60 drill press is .oo1. But my raise and lowering has more slop. Decent chuck. But my main shaft has slop when I'm lowering or raising it.
Some get a xyz mounting block to hold the silver bullet.



User avatar
LightninBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:09 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by LightninBoy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:38 pm

whodathunkit wrote:In one of the drawings, I posted showing how these tools are used in the videos.
You'll also see a drill bit such as to what LightingBoy, has posted as well.
The drill bit seen reqires a rigid tool holding to prevent breakage & should not be use
in hand-held drilling applications.
Actually, the type of drill bit I use and linked to above is - to the best of my knowledge - not demonstrated in any video nor sold by any PWD vendor. What makes it unique (and more effective IMO) is the brad point tip.
Is there a wrong or right way to using the block or silver bullet tools for rigid tool holding and drilling techiques?
I don't do anything special here. I just make sure the block doesn't move while drilling - which is a good idea regardless of the bit. And I use the Silver Bullet like this drawing ...

Image



User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:43 pm

Im sorry I meant to say xy ,XY table.

here is a picture. I know a few who use this with there drill press.

Image



User avatar
sporty
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am
Location: rockfalls, Illinois

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by sporty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:54 pm

I also need to make a correction.

I have not used a brad point # 44 drill bit. I mid read when viewing. I thought it was jobber one, like I have seen for sale and have used. I wanted to correct and clarify. here our some pictures of a brad point drill bit, for those who don't know.

And well, wow.. geez, we need to thank lightninboy once again. He has been very helpful and sharing and I thank you.

Image

Image

I have used brad points before, and have some, but not that small. I may have to get one and play around with it and see how some cub scouts do with it.

Since I got a local Fastenal, im gonna see if they can get me one. I don't have to pay for shipping that way.

Sporty



User avatar
LightninBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:09 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Alignment Tool Comparisons

Post by LightninBoy » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:10 am

sporty wrote:

And well, wow.. geez, we need to thank lightninboy once again. He has been very helpful and sharing and I thank you.

Sporty
Not a problem. What I've shared is just a fraction compared to what I've learned from you and others on this board. I'm happy now to be in a position to give something back and help others.



Post Reply