Ok guys has anyone done a real test of rail riding vs. conventional straight shot? IE ran the same car both ways if so how much would you think you can gain using the rail? I only ask this question because I have never set up a car to run the rail and I am looking into the process.
Thanks
Lets Ride The Rail!
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
I'm working on my first car since in a long time, so more experienced racers may be of more help and maybe even provide actual race time comparisons. However everything I've read says a RR setup will be much faster. Theoretically, a perfectly aligned car taking a straight shot down the track will always win. That just doesn't happen though, there's too many variables. A RR will be faster, but also much more consistant.
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
K,
Well been at this 11 years.
Can tell you, yes for a fact, RR riding is faster almost 97% of the time.
I have done lots of testing and tuning, from railer hugger ( narrowed body,whee;s hug the rai, runs strait) to rail rider.
If I can find a way to go faster, I was trying it.
Yeps I have done that test situation many times, when I first got into doing RR.
I have not seen a reason to go back to rail hugging
Sporty
Well been at this 11 years.
Can tell you, yes for a fact, RR riding is faster almost 97% of the time.
I have done lots of testing and tuning, from railer hugger ( narrowed body,whee;s hug the rai, runs strait) to rail rider.
If I can find a way to go faster, I was trying it.
Yeps I have done that test situation many times, when I first got into doing RR.
I have not seen a reason to go back to rail hugging
Sporty
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
It is without doubt that rail riding works. Sporty mentions in most cases but I have not found any situation where it has not helped. How much does it help? Well there are so many factors that it is very difficult to put a number on it.
What I love about rail riding is that a dad will come over to my house the night before the big race. Nothing like waiting to the last minute. They will run their car on our track. I will then make a minor adjustment and make it a rail rider and I have seen .0300 come off and sometimes more. To see the cubs face after the improvement is priceless. The only exception is when it is already a rail rider. You do need to also adjust to keep rear wheels off track guide.
A very, very rough guess for a car on a 42' track would be .0300 improvement. But I have seen more especially when it is steering the opposite direction.
After building many, many cars over the last 13 years there are not that many things I am completely convinced work but RR is definitely one of them. It is so difficult to test things on these little cars. A tiny change in wheel alignment between tests and the test is invalid.
What I love about rail riding is that a dad will come over to my house the night before the big race. Nothing like waiting to the last minute. They will run their car on our track. I will then make a minor adjustment and make it a rail rider and I have seen .0300 come off and sometimes more. To see the cubs face after the improvement is priceless. The only exception is when it is already a rail rider. You do need to also adjust to keep rear wheels off track guide.
A very, very rough guess for a car on a 42' track would be .0300 improvement. But I have seen more especially when it is steering the opposite direction.
After building many, many cars over the last 13 years there are not that many things I am completely convinced work but RR is definitely one of them. It is so difficult to test things on these little cars. A tiny change in wheel alignment between tests and the test is invalid.
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
No official testing results here but several years and two scouts (three if you count me) worth of experience. We did not start being really being competive and winning at the pack and the district level until we began railriding. Do it if your rules allow.
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
RR is absolutely proven and may be worth a foot or more over 48 ft vs a identically built and perfectly aligned straight runner.
The main reason you'll have a hard time pinning anyone down on specific time advantage is because that elusive number is a "moving goal-post" due to the inconsistency inherent in a straight runner.
RR does several things to achieve consistency, namely it prevents the rear wheels from ever contacting the track rail if properly executed. This alone is a time killer when a straight runner hits debris and fish tails even the slightest amount. The more aggressive COM is more dangerous in a straight runner for similar reasons.
It is important to understand that there is a "sweet spot" for RR setup. You can absolutely have too much just as you can have too little. Without a test track you'll have to go by some well published rules of thumb from some racers you trust. The ever popular "n inches of drift over n feet" has proven a valuable means to dial in a car for the fastest of racers. Of course the test track advantage is huge since you get the added ability to measure your time as you "dial" in and evaluate the time vs known fast times or theoretical. It's is amazing watching the elapsed times vary then all of a sudden BAM! and you're in business.
It's not a question of whether RR is faster, it is. The only reason I would consider not running RR is if the track rail were extremely bad shape or deformed somehow...fortunately my Son and I never had this situation.
Sound design and meticulous prep/alignment for speed, RR for control and consistency and to seal the deal.
GL,
K
The main reason you'll have a hard time pinning anyone down on specific time advantage is because that elusive number is a "moving goal-post" due to the inconsistency inherent in a straight runner.
RR does several things to achieve consistency, namely it prevents the rear wheels from ever contacting the track rail if properly executed. This alone is a time killer when a straight runner hits debris and fish tails even the slightest amount. The more aggressive COM is more dangerous in a straight runner for similar reasons.
It is important to understand that there is a "sweet spot" for RR setup. You can absolutely have too much just as you can have too little. Without a test track you'll have to go by some well published rules of thumb from some racers you trust. The ever popular "n inches of drift over n feet" has proven a valuable means to dial in a car for the fastest of racers. Of course the test track advantage is huge since you get the added ability to measure your time as you "dial" in and evaluate the time vs known fast times or theoretical. It's is amazing watching the elapsed times vary then all of a sudden BAM! and you're in business.
It's not a question of whether RR is faster, it is. The only reason I would consider not running RR is if the track rail were extremely bad shape or deformed somehow...fortunately my Son and I never had this situation.
Sound design and meticulous prep/alignment for speed, RR for control and consistency and to seal the deal.
GL,
K
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
Since my Son and I have been using the rail riding method the passed 2 years we have not lose a race. Last year at districts we broke the track record twice and this year at districts on the same track we broke it three times.
John
Randy from Maxium Velocity has done some testing and you can find it here.KiaTia wrote:Ok guys has anyone done a real test of rail riding vs. conventional straight shot?
John
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
KiaTia,
If done right, Rail Riding is a great way to pick up speed, but you need to always consider the track you are running on !! Rail Riding works best on a track with a smooth center rail and good joints at each section. If you are running on a track with no center rail or maybe an old wood track with a rough center rail/bad joints, sticking with a straight running car may be your best option. I know it may sound cliche, but "knowledge is power" and knowing the type of track and the condition it is in, will help you in determining the best set up. Rail Riding is the faster of the two set ups in a perfect pinewood derby world, but that is not always the case in the real pinewood derby world.
Lucky 13
If done right, Rail Riding is a great way to pick up speed, but you need to always consider the track you are running on !! Rail Riding works best on a track with a smooth center rail and good joints at each section. If you are running on a track with no center rail or maybe an old wood track with a rough center rail/bad joints, sticking with a straight running car may be your best option. I know it may sound cliche, but "knowledge is power" and knowing the type of track and the condition it is in, will help you in determining the best set up. Rail Riding is the faster of the two set ups in a perfect pinewood derby world, but that is not always the case in the real pinewood derby world.
Lucky 13
Re: Lets Ride The Rail!
KiaTia
Just do it. Follow the guide here and ask questions if U have them. We went from not placing in pack to District champ. Railriding made the difference.
PWDJAY
Just do it. Follow the guide here and ask questions if U have them. We went from not placing in pack to District champ. Railriding made the difference.
PWDJAY
