Wheel Installation Q's

[Ynot]

Is there a simple way to get the spacing between the hub and body is just right? Not too sloppy and not to tight? What should the space be, 3/32, 1/8" and what could I make a spacing jig from that would be the optimum spacing?

I drill all my axel holes and do not use the slots. When installing the wheels what is better, using a hammer and pound it on or a vise (or clamp) and squeeze them on? In either way how can I be sure that the axels are perfectly straight?

Thanks for any help.

[psycaz]

A credit card width is always a great place to start. From there, it's personal preference or what the car wants to run on a test track.

[Stan Pope]

When installing the wheels what is better, using a hammer and pound it on or a vise (or clamp) and squeeze them on? In either way how can I be sure that the axels are perfectly straight?

If you have to use a hammer or vice or clamp to press the axles into the holes, the holes are too tight! I start my BSA axles into the #44 holes with finger pressure, then holding the car body in line with the axles, I press the axle head down against a pedestal made from a short cylinder about 1/2 to 5/8" in diameter. Cut a slot in an old credit card and hold it around the axle to provide a positive stop for axle insertion.

[FatSebastian]

Ynot.

What should the space be, 3/32, 1/8" and what could I make a spacing jig from that would be the optimum spacing?

My sense has been that most people prefer to gap 0.030" to 0.035" (~1/32"). However, we just like using a slotted metal feeler gauge made especially for this purpose:



In addition to credit cards, one can make a spacer tool out of sheets of cardstock stacked to the thickness desired shaped like the above tool (old business cards are good for this).

Another rather convenient and kid friendly method is to gently press down on the body with nail with the wheel installed, against a fender washer resting on the countertop. By putting the center the nail-head in the hole in the washer and gently pushing until the wheel stops against the body, it will leave a gap equal to the thickness of the washer. The fender washer we have used 1-1/4" diameter, ~1/16" thick with a ~9/32" diameter hole.

[Ynot]

Thanks for the reply's. I have plenty of old plastic cards around to use as a feeler gauge and even a couple sets of actual feeler gauges that I could put some slots into. Thanks for waking up my brain.

Stan,

If you have to use a hammer or vice or clamp to press the axles into the holes, the holes are too tight! I start my BSA axles into the #44 holes with finger pressure, then holding the car body in line with the axles, I press the axle head down against a pedestal made from a short cylinder about 1/2 to 5/8" in diameter. Cut a slot in an old credit card and hold it around the axle to provide a positive stop for axle insertion.

When you say "press" do you mean you insert the axels completely by hand or "press" them in with a vise or other tool? BTW, my holes are #44. Do you (or anyone) happen to have a pic of this process?

Tony

[sporty]

Ynot,


You asked a very common question issue.

Hay you took the time to drill some good axle wholes and you risk messing them up when installing the axles into those axle wholes you drilled.

So, here are a couple of suggestions.


I like to take a slightly smaller pin gauge or drill blank, or even a good axle with the head removed.

I liek to use my drill press and press the axle or pin gauge or drill blank into the axle wholes. this helps with a smaller size. fit into the whole and try and be as true as possible.

You can also use the stock axle and close the drill chuck head all the way and press the axle into the whole. But the tight fit with the stock axle, can and will cause a bit of drift as the axle goes in. Which seems to be effected at times, by the wood being a tad softer or harder on 1/4 or 1/2 of the outter whole area.

Either one of these should help reduce the commin issue of installing the axles into the axle wholes better, than by hand.


A reminder, you do have to ensure the block is still square and true and that the drill press table is level and true and not angled in one way or another either.

I like to also use pin gauges, because I can also measure the true ness and squareness with a carpenters square or other measuring tools.

I can also use the drill press to pull that pin gauge / drill rod blank back out of the whole for the first time, versus my fingers or pliers, trying to ensure it comes out strait and true also.

A bit more work and time. But its what you put into the car with those added process's and steps that will pay off in the long run.

Sporty

[Stan Pope]

Stan,

If you have to use a hammer or vice or clamp to press the axles into the holes, the holes are too tight! I start my BSA axles into the #44 holes with finger pressure, then holding the car body in line with the axles, I press the axle head down against a pedestal made from a short cylinder about 1/2 to 5/8" in diameter. Cut a slot in an old credit card and hold it around the axle to provide a positive stop for axle insertion.

When you say "press" do you mean you insert the axels completely by hand or "press" them in with a vise or other tool? BTW, my holes are #44. Do you (or anyone) happen to have a pic of this process?

Tony

With axle and wheel "started" into the #44 hole ...
1. Place spacer around axle between wheel and car body
2. Grasp the car body in both hands with the axle pointed down
3. Place axle head against a depression in the center of a short 1/2" dia pedestal
4. With hand pressure, push the car body down against the axle until snug on the spacer.
5. Remove spacer.

My rules of thumb:
If you can push the axle into the body easily (without causing pain) with finger pressure against the axle head, the hole is too loose. Adhesive will be needed. Holding alignment is at risk.
If you can't push the axle into the body as described above, the hole is too tight.

[sporty]

Tight is right, A very tight fit is what you want.

It also helps the wood absorb and disperse the micro vibratation. Some glues work well and some do not. meaning it can make it tight, but it can also block the micro vibration from dispersing into the wood and cause it to actually migrate back the axle head / wheel.

Now apple's to oranges here. It makes a differance, it all depends on what level of speed and ability you are at and what you are pushing for.

In many pack races, this might not be such a huge issue, but when facing the best of the best, it will be a factor.

But regardless, you want the axle tight int he axle whole. Thats why in my prior post, I recommend a smaller axle, drill rod blank, or pin guage to get that starter whole / compression even and good, versus pushing in with your finger or lords know, do nto tap in with a hammer.


Sporty

[sporty]

I'll add in a bit more of a tip.

I use a feeler guage like the one posted here or I'll use a credit card with a slot in it. On final aseembly and tuning has been done, Then I'll add in some glue into the axle whole and then use the space and install. I also try very hard to ensure no glue comes out of the axle whole and onto the axle or wheel. If it does. I most often take pack out and re-clean and perhaps re-prep, depending on what kind of glue was used and how bad it gone on the axle or wheel.

Often the feeler gauge or credit card, can help prevent this also. but can and will cause the feeler gauge or credit card to stick to the wood or glue to it.

So it's a trial and error with how much glue to add into the axle whole.

Sporty

[Stan Pope]

I also try very hard to ensure no glue comes out of the axle whole and onto the axle or wheel. If it does. I most often take pack out and re-clean and perhaps re-prep, depending on what kind of glue was used and how bad it gone on the axle or wheel.

Some folks drill a hole across the axle hole and 1/4" to 3/8" away from the side of the car. They use this hole to apply glue after tuning. Have you found problems with this approach?

Some folks have trouble reinserting an axle to a previous depth and orientation. This would cause a problem if the axle is removed after tuning. Have you noticed such issues after pulling a tuned axle in order to apply glue?

[sporty]

Oh, Thanks for that reminder. Yeps. For several years we use to drill a whole at towards the end of the length of the axle on the underside of the car and use glue to hold and secure it.

Sporty

[Nitro Dan]

If you are having to use a hammer to get the nails into a #44 drilled hole, it might be that the hole is not drilled deep enough into the wood. This happens with a lot of kids at my workshops where they can't pinch the credit card against the side of the car because they can't push the wheel/axle in tight enough. Try re-drilling your holes without the Pro-Body Tool in place (if you are using it). I like to drill my holes from both sides until the bit is completely through from one side to the other. This gives me the maximum adjustment movement for making the wheel to body spacing.

-Nitro Dan

[Ynot]

Thanks all for the reply's and great suggestions.

I haven't yet attempted to install my axels on this years car. I just recall last years install and how hard it was. At that time I hadn't yet purchased the #44 bit and Pro Body tool, so I just guessed with the bits I had. By the looks of it (reply's) I shouldn't have the same amount of difficulty this year. Also last year I used a tack hammer to bang those puppy's in and even at that time something was telling me that this can't be the way of the Guru's. I really though that pressing them with a vise or clamp (like assembling a turned pen) would be more appropriate and not so cave-man like. Even with all that beating we still managed to get 1st place out of 35 cars. We won every heat. Not bad for never building one before. I've thought all too often that we were simply the best of the worst since our avg. time was just 2.547. This year the pressure is on and I'm being extremely anal.

Again, thanks for all the advise.
Any more pointers, I'm all ears... er eyes.

[Stan Pope]

It also helps the wood absorb and disperse the micro vibratation.

How do you detect / measure the presence and magnitude of such "micro vibrations."

[sporty]

It also helps the wood absorb and disperse the micro vibratation.

How do you detect / measure the presence and magnitude of such "micro vibrations."

Great question-
And i'm not all that interested in getting into that with you either.

Sound waves.

Harmonic's tuner is the way to check, and tune.

In soap box derby racing, harmonics tuning is used to gain some speed, By reducing vibration and also effecting how it disperses through out the car.

Some use a set of tuning forks to tune there cars, but it does take a bit of time to find the right sound / frequency that works best for your set up.

I don't have the time these days to have big debates with you Stan. So i welcome you to find those answers. I really prefer not to have my work nit picked.


But here is all you will further get from me on this one. and no further reply will be posted about it.

The inercia of the wheel spinning, send out a sonic wave of sound, that effect the wheel rotation, like a car going over a bumpy road. And some of this is also created from the track also.

Recently my theory was proven when a friend, polished his best track and found all cars to run .004 faster, The reduction of surface imperfections, reduces the micro vibration that effected the cars performance.

it's also why wax in the wheel bores is being used in oil racing, that wax is also absorbing some sound and micro vibration along with helping to create a double or trible layer that acts like bearings.

3 or 4 wheels running down a track, wheels spin at scale speeds of up over 160 to 200 miles per hours, unless you got the perfect polished smooth aluminuim track.

Which most packs do not. Then this is the future area to work on. And finer Rail riding tuning will also come into play also, because less sonic / sound and micro vibration will be effecting the car.

Less noticable on wider wheels, like stock bsa, because of the absorption and dispertion pattern. But much more pro found on razer wheels. Where the sound and micro vibration wave is more concentrated due to the super thin wheels.

So instead of Grandpa's spring car, isolate those issues at each axle to body mount location.

It was something I was working on before I retired. Only 4 people know about the materials that were in testing. I left the secrets with them to work on them and build cars with those materials.

I have been working on it for many months until, I just said time to retire.

Sporty