Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

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Eagle
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Eagle »

Using the drill press as a press?

Surely not spinning axles while inserting.
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Darin McGrew »

Eagle wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:01 pmUsing the drill press as a press?

Surely not spinning axles while inserting.
Our workshops have provided drill presses. We cut the head off an axle, then chuck it in the drill press. Then we turn the drill press on and lower the spinning axle into the slot. This makes it much easier for the kids to insert their axles when the car is done, and their axles go in straight.

This has been one of the most helpful things we've done at our workshops as far as helping all the cars cross the finish line goes.
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

Eagle, we use the drill press as a press. We use an axle Made in China that tends to measure .086 and at workshops we simply turn on the drill press and run them in the axle slots like Darin does. The Pro body tool is then used to raise a front slot using the #44 drill bit and a variable speed drill. The .086 nail leaves the slot a little snug but a lot easier for folks to insert the nails and wheels.

When we do a special car the Pro Axle guide is clamped tight to the car and the slots are spread by a spinning .086 nail. When it comes time to install the wheels the guide is once again clamped to the car and the axle press is not turned on but used as a press. I use a board with a 1 1/4" hole cut in it. As wheels are installed the board is used for the opposite wheel to have somewhere to go. With the press and the board one person can easily install the wheels.
Eagle
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Eagle »

I understand now. I thought you were installing the axles with the drill press. I must have missed a post somewhere.
Speedster
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

Eagle, just to be clear. We do install the axles with the drill press.
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Eagle »

Speedster it is a still picture, but it looks like drill press is being used as a press. I just wanted someone coming here and looking to be informed.

If someone wants to cut an axle and use it to drill bit - ok.

But, I don't think anyone should attempt to chuck up an axle head in their dill press and install the wheel on their car that way.
Speedster
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

Eagle, my apologies. This is my fault and I need to get it corrected quickly.
The beauty of installing axles this way is because the child can take a part in this doing whatever the adult assigns the child to do. There is holding your hand over the Childs hand on the drill press, having the child hold the Credit card in place while the nail is installed, holding the handle of the clamp. The nail is pushed into the axle slot about an 1/8" before the assembly goes to the drill press. After that. final assembly takes place.

Would you do me a favor. I've sent you a picture of the assembly with no drill press in the picture. I know you're a Master of posting pictures. Would you please send a couple of pictures to Derbytalk showing how we install axles. Thanks Eagle.
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Bill
Eagle
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Eagle »

Image
I haven’t been able to upload your image. I reached out to Whoda for an assist.
In the meantime here is a picture of your picture


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Speedster
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

Eagle, you did it! It looks Great and hopefully will answer any question anyone might have. Thank you.

It even shows the Gorgeous, complicated wood block I built that I talk about under "General Off Topic". Help installing wheels. Thanks again.
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by whodathunkit »

Speedster,
I'm not seeing the gap gauge on the axle guide tool in the pic eagle posted for you!
However you did say that you let the kids hold an old credit card while pressing the axle in hand over hand method..with the drill press and setting the wheel gap.
That's a really cool idea to get the kids involved with the process of installing the wheels and axles.

How well does the drill press chuck jaws do to fit and not damage the outer ring of the axle head or the outer hub of the wheel ...with the jaws closed.
Are you using an axle inserting tool chucked up in the jaws of the drill press.. or just the chuck jaws in the closed position.

How long has it been since you have seen an.. old axle Inserter and extractor tool like this speedster?
https://imgur.com/LO9eDcA
https://imgur.com/FwB1dAB
I think this one came from Pinewood Pro or David Meade.. before the T handle model's came out.. However I can't seem to recall where it came from for sure.

Check out the old Max V axle extractor 5137 model.. that predate his axle extraction pliers.
https://imgur.com/1sK2rqD

See there Eagle at least your pic shows up on the screen!... while i'm :pullhair: to get mine to with Imgur.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Speedster
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

Whoda, Force of Habit. When I do this with a scout we both run the nail in until we get close. The scout then holds the credit card in place and I take the press the rest of the way. I can feel when the press makes contact.

I have 2 of Harbor Freights cheapest drill presses. One for drilling 3 holes and one for spreading axle slots at workshops. The raised wheel slot is then done with the Pro Body tool and a variable speed drill with the #44 drill bit. We get the biggest, strongest volunteer so the tool doesn't need to be clamped to the block. You now proceed to Station #2 which is drawing out your design for Sation #3, getting the car cut.
I just close the jaws all the way. The jaws go on the axle head about 1/2 way down. The jaws never come close to anything and since the slots have been spread there's not much pressure and there is total control. A big benefit is you can keep pushing the axle in and keep checking to see that you can still be able to use the pliers. After all tuning is done you then push them in the rest of the way which is a very slight amount. We are not allowed to cut a groove in the axle head.

I never knew inserters and extractors existed until now. How in the World do you know about these cute toys?

Really, Mr. Whoda, Is there anything about the Pinewood Derby you do not know? Is a 2 1/2 degree bend on the rear axles better then a 1 1/2 degree bend and why?
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whodathunkit
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by whodathunkit »

Speedster!
My Personal experiences with slots and using bent back axles:

I don't like using the bent axles on the back any more.. Why?

Because there hard for me to get aligned just right.. And it's way to easy to get them knocked out of alignment any more.
If the car takes a hit on one of the back wheels while it's in the stopping area by another car that has jumped the rail.
Smacking in to it.. or it smacking someone else's car. Or if the car gets dropped in shipping.. or on the floor by chance.
Even with gluing the bent back axles in to hold alignment in place..
Just one good hit to one of the wheel's on back or to the front wheel with a bent axle for that matter..
It's like a good twist on the axle.. and it brakes the axle lose in the glue that was holding the axle alignment in place.
And then there go’s all that time and effort you spent on the tuning board.. trying to get them In perfect alignment in the first place.

But that’s just me and my personal preference with using bent axle's and why i don't like using them .

I know how you like your method of bending the back axles and there''s nothing wrong with it.. each to his own devices and or personal preference's !

But been's how your asking me what my thought's are on the bend angles for the rear ..
lets see the ..1.5 bend on the front, and 2.5 bend on the back is the old standards .
So I’d say 2.5 would be better for the back .
why:
Because the old standard is that you used the 1.5 bend on the front axle to steer the car to the rail and to adjust the rears to have no toe in or out .

As far as the cute toy's for inserting and extracting axles .. I knew you'ed like seeing them!
These cute tool's have been at it.. just about as long as I have .. started out with them in the pinewood derby!

And Speedster, i know you have been at this for over 30 plus year's.. now or more.
So would you please check on your joined date here on DT !
It has you.. as joined Sat Feb 18, 2012.
But something tells me you've been at this since 1982 or there about's and you are telling me you've have never seen the cute toy's ?
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Speedster
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Re: Personal experiences with "slots required" rule

Post by Speedster »

My History of the Pinewood Derby. OK, we would be on the wrong Topic
Briefly, Son Jeff and I joined Pack 217 in 1985 and I saw my 1st Pinewood Derby Kit. Yep, still with Pack 217 and Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts will be raced this Saturday. I'm the Inspector. In 2012 I was on Hodges Hobby House to buy something and I noticed Derbytalk. The rest is History.

Back to the Topic.
Our rules won't let us go to 2 1/2 degrees. Even though we are not involved I do think about it. I have never tested what is a concern to me but I see now I'm going to need to do it. One Example: If a hole is drilled for an angle of 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are both towed out, will the pressure on the axle heads keep the wheels on the heads while rolling the car forward and then reverse or will the wheels migrate to the body of the car in reverse. At 1 1/2 degrees the wheels will show they are not parallel to the body of the car.

Where is Randy Davis when we need him?
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