so i am making my own wheels

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dirtjoedirt
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so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:55 pm

hello, first time caller, long time (not really) lurker here.
Love the website it has been a ton of help. I have been working on my outlaw car and I can't find the answer that I am looking for. I am covering the wheels so that they will not be visible. due to dimension regulations I am filing down my wheels. However, I am wondering if there is an easier way to get the same result. what I mean is, would a washer (assuming I can find one in the right diameter) work just as well? I am not as interested in winning the race as it looking good, but i don't want the car to get stuck half way down the track. I also go t to give a shout out to BGRacing he has been helping me out alot with what I am trying to build Thanks Bro!



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Stan Pope
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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:48 pm

Provide some dimensions for the minimum and maximum envelopes for these wheels (tread width, tread diameter, bore dia, bore length).
What load must they carry?

What capability do you have for reshaping? Lathe? Drill press? ???


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sporty
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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by sporty » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:15 am

do you mean use a washer for a wheel ? instead of a bsa wheel ?


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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:36 pm

Stan Pope wrote:Provide some dimensions for the minimum and maximum envelopes for these wheels (tread width, tread diameter, bore dia, bore length).
What load must they carry?

What capability do you have for reshaping? Lathe? Drill press? ???
I used a forstner bit on a 1/2 " pine fender about 3/8" down. The body is standard 1 and 3/4, fenders that cover the wheels are 1/2 taking me to the max 2 and 3/4 inches not accounting for primer, sealer etc. fluctuations. I have approximately 1/8" 'wall' to hide wheels. I had used a dremel and hand sander to file down to under 3/8" on the tires but I have had less than perfect results and not sure how much my results will affect my speed. I have no access to a lathe, just dremel and sander. The max/min. envelopes would be the standard pwd size, the only change would be in the tread diameter and if I'm understanding the terminology correctly, the bore length. I assume the bore length is the tube that the nail sits in on the tire itself, correct? Ideally I wood find something about 1/8-1/4 thickness in the tire tread including the bore. Stupid computer is not allowing me to attach pictures right now.
Last edited by dirtjoedirt on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:38 pm

sporty wrote:do you mean use a washer for a wheel ? instead of a bsa wheel ?


Sporty
I am. I'm pretty much open to what ever is cheap and simple.



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by macd » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:25 pm

So, you want this ?



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by Stan Pope » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:27 pm

I'm asking about the envelope for the wheels ... minimum and maximum ... and what weight the need to carry.

Translation:

What is the minimum and maximum diameter that will work?
What is the minimum and maximum overall width (thickness) that will work?
What is the minimum and maximum bore size required?
How many ounces/pounds must the wheel support?


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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:28 pm

minimum and maximum diameter are the standard BSA wheels just to help me keep it simple. Maximum overall thickness would have to be 3/8 although I am trying to keep it closer to 1/4". I am not sure of the bore size. and the maximum weight would be approximately 7 ounces give or take. There is also a PWD that I found my inspiration from on flickr but with out checking derbytalk's rules I imagine I can not link directly to the page.



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by Stan Pope » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:31 am

Okay! If you want some challenging fun, grab 4 plastic poker chips, drill a clean hole 1/8" dia in the center of each. This hole will later house a hub.

Each hub is formed 3/16" long section of 1/8" OD brass tubing, which, in turn, will house a slightly longer section of 3/32" OD brass tubing with well polished ends. (The ID of 3/32" brass tubing will fit a small diameter nail nicely.) If you are brave, you can cut a slightly longer section of 1/16" OD brass tubing which will fit nicely inside the 3/32" and polish its ends nicely. The ID of this 1/16" OD brass tubing is a nice fit for a sewing pin. The two or three lengths of brass tubing get telescoped with the smaller tubings sticking out of each end of the next larger tubing. The fit is good so alignment holds. Super glue the tubings together.

If the smallest tubing is 3/32, it will turn on a 1/16" dia axle nicely and reduce bore friction by about 40 percent. If the smallest tubing is 1/16" OD, the tne id is a good fit for a straight pin, resulting in a total reduction of bore friction of 60 to 70%. (I don't remember the numbers for sure.)

Straight pins (sewing pins) bend pretty easily so take care of the car. The good part is that they bend back easily and they are not very critical in alignment... get 'em close and they kinda self-align when they run!

Fit the poker chip to a screw with a snug fit and tighten a washer and nut down on it. chuck the screw in a handy rotary device, e.g. drill press, hand drill, dremel. (Dremel usually has pretty low runout and collet takes 1/8" dia shafts!) I think that Dremel makes a mandrel that would fit the 1/8" hole nicely. If so, it would be a good choice. We're gonna cut this oversized wheel down to size, just as though you had a lathe in your shop. A small, sharp chisel is a good tool to use as a cutter ... first cut to new diameter, just a bit oversize, by plunging in from the side of the chip. Then thin the chip a bit and sharpen the "tread".

Make some nice perpendicular holes in a piece of wood. Do a good job on this because the holes and face of the wood will align the hub and wheel while the glue dries. The depth of the holes should allow teh wheels to lie flat on the wood and the hubs to orient evenly in teh center hole of the chip. When ready, put the ub in the wood form, put the chip over the hub, and run a bead of epoxy around the hub/chip joint.

"Da big guys" cut their wheels out of material like delrin and push small ball bearings into them, but some poker chips with brass hubs and straight pins will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the cost and twice as much fun.


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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by sporty » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:22 pm

Carefull which poker chips you get, the ones I got had metal in them and I could not use them.

Sporty



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Stan Pope wrote:Okay! If you want some challenging fun, grab 4 plastic poker chips, drill a clean hole 1/8" dia in the center of each. This hole will later house a hub.

Each hub is formed 3/16" long section of 1/8" OD brass tubing, which, in turn, will house a slightly longer section of 3/32" OD brass tubing with well polished ends. (The ID of 3/32" brass tubing will fit a small diameter nail nicely.) If you are brave, you can cut a slightly longer section of 1/16" OD brass tubing which will fit nicely inside the 3/32" and polish its ends nicely. The ID of this 1/16" OD brass tubing is a nice fit for a sewing pin. The two or three lengths of brass tubing get telescoped with the smaller tubings sticking out of each end of the next larger tubing. The fit is good so alignment holds. Super glue the tubings together.

If the smallest tubing is 3/32, it will turn on a 1/16" dia axle nicely and reduce bore friction by about 40 percent. If the smallest tubing is 1/16" OD, the tne id is a good fit for a straight pin, resulting in a total reduction of bore friction of 60 to 70%. (I don't remember the numbers for sure.)

Straight pins (sewing pins) bend pretty easily so take care of the car. The good part is that they bend back easily and they are not very critical in alignment... get 'em close and they kinda self-align when they run!

Fit the poker chip to a screw with a snug fit and tighten a washer and nut down on it. chuck the screw in a handy rotary device, e.g. drill press, hand drill, dremel. (Dremel usually has pretty low runout and collet takes 1/8" dia shafts!) I think that Dremel makes a mandrel that would fit the 1/8" hole nicely. If so, it would be a good choice. We're gonna cut this oversized wheel down to size, just as though you had a lathe in your shop. A small, sharp chisel is a good tool to use as a cutter ... first cut to new diameter, just a bit oversize, by plunging in from the side of the chip. Then thin the chip a bit and sharpen the "tread".

Make some nice perpendicular holes in a piece of wood. Do a good job on this because the holes and face of the wood will align the hub and wheel while the glue dries. The depth of the holes should allow teh wheels to lie flat on the wood and the hubs to orient evenly in teh center hole of the chip. When ready, put the ub in the wood form, put the chip over the hub, and run a bead of epoxy around the hub/chip joint.

"Da big guys" cut their wheels out of material like delrin and push small ball bearings into them, but some poker chips with brass hubs and straight pins will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the cost and twice as much fun.

Wow. Thanks alot. Some really good ideas here. Unfortunately some of this is a little beyond my skill level/time left till derby.I think I will use this for next years derby. I was hoping for a simpler solution. I went back and looked in the rules and did not see anything that says I could not link to an image I found online so forgive me moderators if I am blind and did not catch it. The image I took for inspiration for what I want to do is on flicker at this url.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24036963@N ... hotostream" target="_blank
Thanks for any advice and again, I do not need the fastest car, just something that will not get stuck on the track or have too much friction as I have been sanding down the thickness of the tire itself and the (hub? I guess if I am speaking correctly.)



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Re: so i am making my own wheels

Post by dirtjoedirt » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:22 pm

macd wrote:So, you want this ?
This is exactly what I am looking for.



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