The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

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sporty
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The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

For the past few years. We used what I call the spoon design. for extended wheel base car.

So, today, I thought I would post some pictures and some info 4 those of you who want to make one.


1st. I do start off with a full block of wood, I then mark my axle whole locations.

Rear: 5/8ths
Front: 6/8ths or 7/8ths.

I use pro body jig, to drill a 1/8th starter whole for all the wholes.


(I make two types of wholes, with many of the cars We build). This one shown is of raised axle wholes for the front. But Also use the standard axle wholes for the front On many of the cars also.

One of the issues, that you will see in the pictures, is it is easy to remove to much wood on the top, at the axle wholes, when they are raised axle wholes. As I did on this car.

I would not use this piece to build a car. but enough info here, for you to build one, like I do. Only because of the mistake I made of removing to much wood at the axle whole area on the front end.

I did not add weight in the car, But I usually do before shaping.


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Below-
For you to see better, Is in red, where I put the weight for a extended wheel base car.

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I mark the lines on the side of the car.

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1/4 of a inch forward of the rear weight pocket and 1/4 of a inch behind the front axle whole.

I mark a line, to use as a guide for my sanding and shaping. I also mark a line forward of the front axle whole.

I also mark between those two line of the front and rear axle wholes, on both sides of the car. 1/8th along the length on the sides. for helping me, during shaping.

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Below:

Showing you what as this stage, the car body weighs.

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Now, I sold my scroll saw, last year.

But here is what I do, now.

I drill several wholes, in the weight pocket area. 1- to prevent cracking or breaking of the wood. but also makes it easier for me to use dremel and cut off disks to remove the weight pocket wood area.

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I do the top and bottom across of the forward weight pocket.

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Then I do a diagnal, cut-

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I found it easier to use a small shisel or a small , flat head screw driver to break the wood away on the ends.

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I also on the rear weight pocket, cut the length first , across.

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I remove the wood inside, with a dremel carefully, and test fit my 1/4 cubes, before glueing in.

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On top of the car, I make sure I have lines, 1/4 forward of the weight pocket and 1/4 behind the front axle slots. Like I did on the side.

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A pic, of where we are with weight, so far.

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Next I make lines on top. as a guide for shaping and rounding over. These are 1.5 mm or about 6/8ths from each side of the car.

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Now I do 1/4 of a inch away from the sides. dotted lines. this is used as my angle guide. when I am sanding down the sides to the 1/8th line on the sides of the car.

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See the shape, start to form, using the lines as a guide.

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The front nose.

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More shaping:

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Another scale weight check.

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More shaping--

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Another scale weight check.

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It needs some more sanding and weight and monokote covering.

But this is close to the spoon car design. That we use.

As I mentioned. I endeing up, taking to much off on the front axle, I rounded over to much.

But everything else is pretty close. to help you. For those who want to do this style.

When using raised axle wholes for the front, it is harder to get the shape right.

Sporty
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

SPOON 2


I decided to do a spoon 2, for you. this one with the standard axle wholes in the front.


I thought I would add in a few other pictures. To show how we do it.


Using the pro body jig, to drill the rear, starter wholes. 1/8th deep.

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Now, I use the pro body tool, to drill the 1/8th starter whole for the front.

I add in clamps and also use part of the pro body jig. onto the wood. to keep it steady and at the same height.

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Here is a pick of a 1/16th rod. 7 inches long, under the rear of the wood. to drill canted rears. (remember) you have to turn the block around and over, to do the other rear.

Also Note: this smaller rod, is for drilling a lesser degree of cant.

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To drill front cant.

Just like you see in the picture, the rod is on the underside of the front part of the block.

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I still bend a axle for the front, to tune the rail rider. But provides less of a bend and easier to tune.

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With the front end having a lower axle whole. I am able to shape the front nose a bit better and differently, then in SPOON 1 car.

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Now lets, see the car weight drop on the scale, as I remove wood.

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(10.7 grams)
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Sporty
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

I added on some monkote and a few strips for a bit of a design and then a pic of it on the scale.

I did not add the weight yet. I wanted to show you, how much the car weight is, with it monokoted.


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***12 grams***

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I rushed it a bit, so it has some wrinkles in it. I also typically add a coat or two of laquer clear coat over the monokote.


Sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by whodathunkit »

DaGum Sporty,
Did FS, show you how to post photos on here also ?
He was Right I should have brought a faster car.. ;)
Thanks for tips Sporty.. And good to see you fired up posting your cars and info.

Mark.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by Speedster »

Super Slick Engineering !!!! Great pictures !!!! Thank You.
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by Topspin.D »

Maybe a silly question, but is the shaped side the top or the bottom of the car body?
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

The bottom of the car is flat.

what you see is the top of the car, I would not monkote and stripe the bottom of the car.
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by Noskills »

Sporty,

I have been reviewing your photos for the start of the building season. I see you have little room left for additional weight. I guess you know how much weight to use and where to put it based on experience. Can you tell us how much tungston you use? Looks like two rows of four 1/4 in cubes in front and behind the axel?

Seth (Noskills)
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

I use 12 cubes behind the rear axle and I used 12 cubes in front of the axle. 24 cubes.
(two rows of 6)
However, sometimes. I use 10 cubes forward of the rear axle, if I use a thicker car or paint it.


The more weight you can get where you want it, the better the odds areat winning. every little bit of weight helps.


I think I would have to say, it is a part of us winning for so many years. many cars dont go that thin andhave that much weight.


The rest is in the prep and tuning / alignment.


For stock wheel bases. Naturall the weight set up is different.


for stock wheel base. I run 3 rows of 4. 1/4 cubes behind the rear and a tad over 1/4 of a inch forward of the rear axle. I then forwar have the rest of the weight. I usuall do, two rows of 5. i have the stock wheel base cars a little thicker. so I cant add all the cubes I would like too where I want it.
My designs as mentioned before. are for air flow over the front end and not under the car and track rail.


My stuff is not asure fire win. for anyone. cuz other factors involved. But compared to a standard thicker car. you will do better or should do better with more weight in the sweet spot zone.

Sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by whodathunkit »

sporty wrote:I use 12 cubes behind the rear axle and I used 12 cubes in front of the axle. 24 cubes.
(two rows of 6)
However, sometimes. I use 10 cubes forward of the rear axle, if I use a thicker car or paint it.


The more weight you can get where you want it, the better the odds areat winning. every little bit of weight helps.


I think I would have to say, it is a part of us winning for so many years. many cars dont go that thin andhave that much weight.


The rest is in the prep and tuning / alignment.


For stock wheel bases. Naturall the weight set up is different.


for stock wheel base. I run 3 rows of 4. 1/4 cubes behind the rear and a tad over 1/4 of a inch forward of the rear axle. I then forwar have the rest of the weight. I usuall do, two rows of 5. i have the stock wheel base cars a little thicker. so I cant add all the cubes I would like too where I want it.
My designs as mentioned before. are for air flow over the front end and not under the car and track rail.


My stuff is not asure fire win. for anyone. cuz other factors involved. But compared to a standard thicker car. you will do better or should do better with more weight in the sweet spot zone.

Sporty
Spory, I noted: that by raising the back axel heigth.. your droping the sweet spot of the weight some what below that of the axel plane.

Is this because .. you feel by doing this
That it helps by keeping the weight closer to the track to push the car longer threw the curved section of the track.
Or because you feel that it may also help to make for a more stable running car.(?)
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

the picture might be giving a different view. I think this us cuz many of my pictures show the car before the top and bottom is sanded down some and its easy to see the higher up axle wholes then.

One thing to, that you have to account for, is the canting too.

the sweet spot is perfect. not to low or to high.


I did tons and tons of testing a few years ago, playing with weight placement and weight height and in connection to the axle whole and wheel height.

Quadad and murphken and woodworx. could tell ya if they were still around on here. I bet i was testng and tinkering 6 to 8 hours a day for many monthsand longer on the weekends.
I was building 4 to 6 cars a day, doing different things for months. woodworx i bet gave me over 100 pieces of wood in 2010. and I used them all up in 6 months.


The fastest people out there are people who put tons of hours into buildling and learning. Some do it for a living, no job. not sure how they make money. But if you put in that kind of time everyday. sooner or later. it becomes a perfected process and then you can do super fast cars from start to build in under 2 hours.


Sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by murphken »

Sporty,
Murph is still around and now living in your neck of the woods! PM me you phone #. I am in Dallas most of the time and am trying to get back to the family who are still living in Chattanooga, more often.
I am going to try to get back into Pro Racing after 6 month absence. I don't have much time, especially during the first part of the year. Currently, I am sitting on a bunch of new car bodies that I hope to take to Dallas to work on.
I am going to be helping Scouts with BSA Cars and still moderate @ DW. Hope we can connect soon and run some cars!
Murph
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by DerbyNut »

Hi Sporty,

This thread is great! I may use this method for inserting weights this year. I have a question though. Since you glue the weights in you do not leave any way to adjust the weight. So I assume you have it dialed in as far as how much weight and where it goes? So the only adjustment I can see that you will have is adjusting the front dominating wheel as far as alignment if you build a rail rider. Is this right? Because I assume you cant your read wheels and make it a rail rider.

Thanks!
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sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by sporty »

DerbyNut wrote:Hi Sporty,

This thread is great! I may use this method for inserting weights this year. I have a question though. Since you glue the weights in you do not leave any way to adjust the weight. So I assume you have it dialed in as far as how much weight and where it goes? So the only adjustment I can see that you will have is adjusting the front dominating wheel as far as alignment if you build a rail rider. Is this right? Because I assume you cant your read wheels and make it a rail rider.

Thanks!


I use tunsten putty for fine tuning of the weight. Over many many car builds. what you see if what we came to do or where to place weight at, after years of testing, tuning and building.

most of the cars for pack, are rail riders, 4 on the floor rail riders. at the time years ago, i could not find any info out there, on how to turn a 4 on the floor a rail rider. so I came up with my own process and have been sharing it on here for years.

Most of our builds are based on our pack and council rules.

Yes, our rears, were canted, 1.2 degrees. we were only allowed a mild cant.

I have to tune both front wheels for rail riding for 4 on the floor. harder than tuning a 3 wheel rail rider if you ask me.


added brief info. the left front wheel has mild toe out, 3/4 degree. sometimes less, sometimes more, it all depends on each car build. slight differances in any build.

I have to be carefully, with the right front rail rider, because, to much cant, effects the left front wheel. it effects the angle. This can end up reducing speed and working against each other.

So, I try and do a 1.2 degree cant for the right front., opposite cant then the rear cant. and then I use a bend axle, from 1 to 2 degrees. it will all depend on what it takes for me to get the drift numbers I want and for everything to work right.

The left front has that mild toe out, enough drift to keep the wheel from going into the car body, and to also work with the right front wheel, without causing a fighting friction / reduction of speed with the other front wheel.

So, I tune the car with first just the left front wheel on, and the rears. I want it (example) to drift 1 inch at 4 feet. then I take the wheel off, mark the axle, so its close to where i want it, when I put it back on.

Now, I add in the right front wheel. I want it (for example) to drift 1.5 inches at 4 feet.

So then I add the left back on, with the axle marked and try and get it back to close to where I had it. then run it a few times, check it, look for things at it rolls. hard to explain this part. so im skipping it.

and a track and timer, helps also to super fine tune it for getting the sweet spots, just right.


Some where in the mix of all that back in forth, I add in some elmers glue into the axle whole. to ensure all that tuning, stays tuned for the racing. but sometimes the glue does not hold. lol.

I know, more than what you asked 4, but I wanted to convey, its a 4 on the floor rail rider. not just a 3 wheel rail rider.

And the pictures were of a one of many cars done and perhaps more for helping. I dont think that car ever raced, seen in the photos. just to help others.

sporty
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Re: The Spoon, Lots of pictures.

Post by knotthed »

Sporty,

Thanks for sharing! your last post is exactly what I was looking for today!

We are ready to start our car for this year and will be using a lot of your info.

We did ok last year but are looking to improve on it this year.

What does your COM work out to be on these typically? how far in front of the rear axle?

I just checked ours from last year and I was shocked to see it was 1" I was thinking it was less than than.

We are hoping to make up the car length we were behind you in the post district test run last year.
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