Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
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sporty
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Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:21 pm

If you have been to the photo section and seen my current projects and cars built recently or in the works.


I have been attempting to use air (since there is a debate on air, including from me, is there enough air there !)

So I am attempting to make Air cars, that can use the air to help the wheels spin easier and faster with air. If I can find a design that I can make and work, that is not restrictive and causing more problems then it creates.

It's a big task to under take, and I have no idea if this will work or if it can be done. But I like to think out of the box. and I felt this was a good time. I have had these ideas and styles im trying to do, for years now. I kind of been waiting to see someone else do it or come up with it. But as time has gone On, I have not seen it happen.

So I am hoping my effort can jump start things.


I have not made the ideal design, its tedious and hard to make without a template, its all scratch build and trial and error. So its going to take several tries and attempts.

Im currently using 1/16th thick wood and some paperboard from bsa kit box. lol. I have some 1/32 wood coming later next week.
I have not yet decided, until I try it, if it will be what I want, I am also thinking very thin rigid plastic. I have not focused yet on the inside, I know I need to make it super smooth and slick, to give great air flow and ease of the air flow.

Here some pictures of the different shapes and styles so far.

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3rd style so far.

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This 3rd style, I can remove more wood from the front nose area, I did not push It, I can remove more and go lower yet. I wanted to try and use the nose and a angle to capture and direct some of the air, with out going higher up with the design. then blend it in farther down on top with monokote, to provide a gradual transition down farther onto the top of the car.

That's the tricky part, leading the way and trying something that's been in my mind for several years now, trying to do it, trying to make it and get it to work. Going to take many tries and effort, before I end up with a final style, shape and design.

Pretty ruff, here, Im no video guy.

But a quick example of air into it, moving the wheel, nothing special, just to see if I was on the right track. I just blew inot the area. not super blowing, but mid air pressure from the lungs. :sick: :mrgreen:

click on IMAGE TO PLAY video CLIP. VIDEO CLIP BELOW..

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Sporty



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sporty
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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:05 pm

Laser man.

I also want to try straws and other items to make air flow better and try the venturi type shape



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by ngyoung » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:05 pm

I am thinking if you want to create more of an air flow bias that you may still want to have the top of the fender ramp up like a conventional fender to deflect any air not being funneled at the bottom of the wheel. Leave the tube you have now as is and just add a ramp on top. I hope you get a chance to see if this will actually translate to more speed on the track.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:18 pm

ngyoung wrote:I am thinking if you want to create more of an air flow bias that you may still want to have the top of the fender ramp up like a conventional fender to deflect any air not being funneled at the bottom of the wheel. Leave the tube you have now as is and just add a ramp on top. I hope you get a chance to see if this will actually translate to more speed on the track.
Thanks for posting here, and seeing video clip.

I have no idea if it work or do anything, still tinkering with design. I do want try balsa on top there as well.
I'm okay with it working or not working. Something different to tinker with. Wanted to do something different. Think outside of the box.
M waiting on some supplies right now, and under the weather, so be a few days before I tinker some more.

I encourage others to tinker and try also.

I thought about the current balsa fender shapes and just adding a venturi hole in them.

There's no one the follow here, I am the guinea pig.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by Laserman » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:15 pm

Hey Sporty,

I am loving the direction you are taking with the cars you are building!
We may only be chasing our tails but what is the harm?

I believe we are on the same page regarding the Venturi tube, but I will just post some thoughts:

If the air enters the right front Venturi fender and the restriction is increased in the middle (hourglass shape), then this will create lower pressure and faster speed of the air that comes out the back of the fender.
A hole drilled into the "waist" of the hourglass could be facing towards the rail. Should it be angled towards the front or rear of the car? Probably the rear would be better.
This could create a suction that will draw the car towards the rail.
The same thing can be done on the raised wheel fender, but with the Venturi hole facing towards the outside of the car.

The added restrictions may offset any gain even if it does work but it will take a trail blazer to figure it out.

Getting the wheels to spin faster seems like a dream too good to be true.
Like a perpetual motion machine.
I am so glad that you are building cars again, and pushing way outside the known systems in place.
Another thought I had is that the air that is forced under the car is already forming a bit of a restriction between the rails, car, and track, and somewhat setting the stage for the Venturi principle.
If a form of steering (other than with the DFW) can be achieved, then the possibility of skipping the DFW off the rail the entire length of the track may be possible. Almost like "English" in pool playing.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:34 pm

Laserman wrote:Hey Sporty,

I am loving the direction you are taking with the cars you are building!
We may only be chasing our tails but what is the harm?

I believe we are on the same page regarding the Venturi tube, but I will just post some thoughts:

If the air enters the right front Venturi fender and the restriction is increased in the middle (hourglass shape), then this will create lower pressure and faster speed of the air that comes out the back of the fender.
A hole drilled into the "waist" of the hourglass could be facing towards the rail. Should it be angled towards the front or rear of the car? Probably the rear would be better.
This could create a suction that will draw the car towards the rail.
The same thing can be done on the raised wheel fender, but with the Venturi hole facing towards the outside of the car.

The added restrictions may offset any gain even if it does work but it will take a trail blazer to figure it out.

Getting the wheels to spin faster seems like a dream too good to be true.
Like a perpetual motion machine.
I am so glad that you are building cars again, and pushing way outside the known systems in place.
Another thought I had is that the air that is forced under the car is already forming a bit of a restriction between the rails, car, and track, and somewhat setting the stage for the Venturi principle.
If a form of steering (other than with the DFW) can be achieved, then the possibility of skipping the DFW off the rail the entire length of the track may be possible. Almost like "English" in pool playing.
I'm trying...
I like the idea of straws or heat shrink tubing or using balsa or basswood for the venuri. Don't know which way to go, try them all. Lol
Thanks for the kind words.

I may have poor worded a few comments also.

The forward spin of the wheel, creates a air vortex on the front wheels, this is where my comments and ideas started with, several years ago. I thought if I could find a way to aid that forward vortex from the front spinning of the wheels, (air ram, ram jam and 3rd prototype so far)

At the very least it would aid in lesser resistance with gravity power. And help the wheels own creation of the forward spin vortex, in helping. It would reduce the wheels own loss of energy from creating its own forward spin vortex.
Aiding it, should make it spin easier and a very tiny amount faster.
The key as you said, directing it to the right spot is key and the question remains how much air and air velocity is there and aid in this.
The big debate, is how much air is there, and how strong is it , is there enough there to have a venturi work well or work at all.

I need help.. People with tracks and timers to help fiddle too with this, those who are interested in this.
I think it can be done, it will take effort and work to perfect and get a working design.
If its not there, its at least a new look ! For a car.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by davet » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:20 am

My dad told me about a show he saw where a company designed some kind of air foil or spoiler that they attached to a dump truck. It directed the air that passed over it forward against the back of the truck which actually helped push it along for better gas mileage. The tests they showed during the program proved it effective. I never found the show or the product when I searched for it.

How do those funnels on your car help. Aren't they just adding surface area.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:10 am

I am trying to borrow a track and timer, be a few weeks, I have been sick most of this week and have not felt well enough to work on anything.
Some of my thin wood came in mail yesterday.


I need time, I figure I need a month or so right now, at least, holidays, family stuff.

I encourage others to help



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:41 pm

I gather a little time, to do a ltitle to the car,

The balsa piece needs some serious work yet tho. Its ugly and not the shape I want, needs a lot more transistion and shape. this piece too small, but hay, heres a pic anyhow.

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I almost need to start over to fix some things, That I don't like, but its still possibly a good base line test.

I just need to find some time to work on stuff, after being sick. I need to get allot done around the house and spend time with the family too.

sporty



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by davet » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:08 pm

That looks pretty cool. What about just taping a straw in front of the front wheels and you could tip it up and down for testing. Would be lighter too. Could paint to match the car. If that's what u guys meant in earlier posts about the straw I'm sorry.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes-UPDATED

Post by sporty » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:03 pm

Today I got 5/6 hours into tinkering.


First thing, I did was put a better on top of ram jam.

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I'm done with this Ram Jam Car. Until I can get to try it on a track.

Venturi-S

Started trying to make them out of plastic tubes.

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This one I tried, My thoughts,. too small of a front air opening. It will work, but it takes way to much air pressure to work.

So this will not work.

So onto next try-

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This design, did work a little better then previous design, however, It still I felt took, way to much air pressure to work.

I had to get up close blow in right at the opening to work. Which to me. Is no way going to work. but still was a improvement over the first attempt.

Jumping for a minute here.

I decided to do modified Ram Jam design. SO far it worked the best and easiest to get the wheel moving.

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Video Clip of this design, works much better and easier.
click on image, double click to play.

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One of the things I noticed, I needed to add a little curve to get better max air to the wheel. so I just used some thin cardboard to get the shape I needed and trim.

This small change, also kept the wheel when spinning from going to the body, a slight direction change here, kept the wheel out to the axle head also. I thought about doing the other side and angling in. But I didn't when I seen how well and easier the wheel spun and worked, So I didn't want to go backwards, I liked the out come.

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Here is another Venturi, more flair at the opening.

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Video Clip, click on, double click to play.

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This last venture, took a bit of time to get right and shape, heat up with the heat gun, using different shapes pieces of wood to work the soft plastic, (once heated) to get the shape I was trying to get.

Im just trying to work with what I got on hand.

I think this one is the one that works the best out of the plastic venturis .


Now just need a track, to see what they do or do not do.

I can see a few small improvements on both my wooden one and the plastic one, that could perfect and enhance yet. But I do not see any future design work, until after I get some track testing.

Some of the pieces of wood, I shaped to help me make the venturi,

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I did not try a straw, I thought I needed a bigger opening and more flair and off the top of my head, did not know where I might find what I needed without having to cut and glue pieces together.

But I am sure I can find thinner walled plastic tubing that would shape easier with the heat gun.


Sporty



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by davet » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:32 pm

Now that is some cool R&D you're doing. I love the big flares on the front of the tubes.
What about one long tube that wrapped around the front and each end aimed down at your wheels. Then, cut the front face of the tubing out that lays across the 1 3/4" front "bumper". That way the opening in the tubing would be all the way across the front of the car and would catch all the air and direct it out both ends at the wheels. The portion in the front that is cut out could even be a much bigger tube so it catches more air yet and forces it to the sides down through the smaller tubes.

Maybe you could compress the air somehow then ignite it as it exits and have it burn out the back. Wait, that would be a jet car.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:57 am

davet wrote:Now that is some cool R&D you're doing. I love the big flares on the front of the tubes.
What about one long tube that wrapped around the front and each end aimed down at your wheels. Then, cut the front face of the tubing out that lays across the 1 3/4" front "bumper". That way the opening in the tubing would be all the way across the front of the car and would catch all the air and direct it out both ends at the wheels. The portion in the front that is cut out could even be a much bigger tube so it catches more air yet and forces it to the sides down through the smaller tubes.

Maybe you could compress the air somehow then ignite it as it exits and have it burn out the back. Wait, that would be a jet car.

It's certainly something I wanted to do. I've just been interested in semis lately and it appears my access to a track and timer are not going to happen anytime soon.

Maybe down the road I'll get back to this.

I actually have a idea for a semi. I want to build. Where this is large amount of mass . Due to it being a semi. And i could really do a maximum air scoop design. But I'm currently very busy and already running behind schedule on my builds.
The other issue is the dounless axles. I don't run but on 3 wheels on the cab. And the non touching wheels that are required to be there are in my way to get the angle and direction of air flow to the wheels that are touching.
Last edited by sporty on Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:11 am

Stan Pope wrote:A thought to complete: The air gathered by the intake is being directed against a wheel surface that is moving forward in opposition to the air flow. Moving the air faster against that motion helps by _______.
The forward rotation of the wheel. With my design. Is having the air directed and angled to the lower portion of the wheel. As I asume you watched my video clips on it working .

STAN. Did you see the video clips ?

The air is NOT.. repeat. Not. Being directed to go against the forward rotational spin.

But is being gathered and directed to aid in the forward rotationav spin. Buy how the angle and direction of the air flow comes in contact with the lower portion of the wheel.

My video clips. Showing. The air actually creating forward rotational spin.

So with you seeing the video and reading my posts and info and different designs. I'm wondering the statement and the question. Please explain why the statement and question.

The question I've asked and maybe you can answer.

Is the air that is being directed strong enough to give a good gain in. 1. Being strong then the air resistance that may hit the top of the wheel without a fender ? 2. Can the air flow that's directed to the lower portion of the wheel be strong enough to aid in any gain in speed at all ? 3. If it can in fact aid in helping the wheel spin easier. Can it be great enough to warrant using my designs in current project mode design statistics stage..
4. Could the gain have a effect as compared from going to say 2.5 gram wheel to a 2.3 gram wheel ? Or more ! To say a gain compared to a 1.8 gram wheel. When it's actually a 2.5 gram wheel ?

All I want is too see a gain of .009 and more to prove it's a plus to use. As I take anything less then that as a non factor.
because a good builder and good car staging. Has a variance .006 or many times .003 range in time difference.



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Re: Air Ram & Ram Jam, Projects, Prototypes

Post by sporty » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:52 am

Stan.

I encourage you to build a few. There's a few variations there and my comments and suggestions. There should be enough info. To help you understand and make a few cars. You still got a track and timer ?

I look forward to seeing some pictures and video clips.
you will be able to understand better and in the process. Have the ability to share the pictures, video, in your own created topic.
I have little interest to see my post/ topic get into pages of distraction on my work. That's why I have challenged others to build a few and see how it works for them.

And as I also believe I said. Hay. In the end it does not work. Least it looks neat.



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