Making Wheels Round

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
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Speedster
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Making Wheels Round

Post by Speedster »

FWIW, once again. I found a #2 wheel as I was going through my boxes of wheels. The wheel cleared the .001 mark on the concentricity gage and stopped. Best raw wheel I've ever come across. I worked on it with the Pro-wheel shaver and my file for 45 minutes. The best I could do was to get the wheel to clear the .001 mark on the left side of the mark. That was good news but not something that would make Headlines. Regarding our District rules, which aren't as restricting as I once thought they were, here's the bad news. The wheel weighed 2.60 grams and measured 1.180 diameter. Enter Derby Evolution's, Revolution BSX, Dia. 1.170, 2.45 gram wheels. These are simply made round, something with the bore, no step removal, no narrowing, no truing this and that. In a package of 4 all the wheels moved off the "0" mark and stopped. None of them came close to being .001 out of round. It was fun seeing what I could do. I hope this info is a help to some.
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Speedster
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Vitamin K
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Vitamin K »

Speedster wrote:FWIW, once again. I found a #2 wheel as I was going through my boxes of wheels. The wheel cleared the .001 mark on the concentricity gage and stopped. Best raw wheel I've ever come across. I worked on it with the Pro-wheel shaver and my file for 45 minutes. The best I could do was to get the wheel to clear the .001 mark on the left side of the mark. That was good news but not something that would make Headlines. Regarding our District rules, which aren't as restricting as I once thought they were, here's the bad news. The wheel weighed 2.60 grams and measured 1.180 diameter. Enter Derby Evolution's, Revolution BSX, Dia. 1.170, 2.45 gram wheels. These are simply made round, something with the bore, no step removal, no narrowing, no truing this and that. In a package of 4 all the wheels moved off the "0" mark and stopped. None of them came close to being .001 out of round. It was fun seeing what I could do. I hope this info is a help to some.
Sounds very similar to the "BASX" wheels that another PWD vendor sells.

I wonder if the Pro-Wheel shaver could be improved if there were a way to use it with a matched pin gage, as opposed to a single-sized pin that comes on the Pro-Hub tool. Seems like you introduce some unavoidable error with the "one-pin-fits-all" approach.
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sporty
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by sporty »

Vitamin K wrote:
Speedster wrote:FWIW, once again. I found a #2 wheel as I was going through my boxes of wheels. The wheel cleared the .001 mark on the concentricity gage and stopped. Best raw wheel I've ever come across. I worked on it with the Pro-wheel shaver and my file for 45 minutes. The best I could do was to get the wheel to clear the .001 mark on the left side of the mark. That was good news but not something that would make Headlines. Regarding our District rules, which aren't as restricting as I once thought they were, here's the bad news. The wheel weighed 2.60 grams and measured 1.180 diameter. Enter Derby Evolution's, Revolution BSX, Dia. 1.170, 2.45 gram wheels. These are simply made round, something with the bore, no step removal, no narrowing, no truing this and that. In a package of 4 all the wheels moved off the "0" mark and stopped. None of them came close to being .001 out of round. It was fun seeing what I could do. I hope this info is a help to some.
Sounds very similar to the "BASX" wheels that another PWD vendor sells.

I wonder if the Pro-Wheel shaver could be improved if there were a way to use it with a matched pin gage, as opposed to a single-sized pin that comes on the Pro-Hub tool. Seems like you introduce some unavoidable error with the "one-pin-fits-all" approach.
Likely looking at a additional $16 min price increase to do that. Likely more.
but good idea.
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Vitamin K
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Vitamin K »

sporty wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
Sounds very similar to the "BASX" wheels that another PWD vendor sells.

I wonder if the Pro-Wheel shaver could be improved if there were a way to use it with a matched pin gage, as opposed to a single-sized pin that comes on the Pro-Hub tool. Seems like you introduce some unavoidable error with the "one-pin-fits-all" approach.
Likely looking at a additional $16 min price increase to do that. Likely more.
but good idea.
I mean, the Pro-Hub tool just becomes a "pin holder" when used with the Wheel Shaver, right? I wonder if there's any way to hack the design to mount your own pin in there.
Speedster
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Speedster »

Derby Evolution now refers to the wheels as BASX. I've had this set for awhile. The other vendor does have the exact same thing advertised but I do not have a set of those.

Yes, an accurate pin is a good idea.
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Laserman »

A machinist would be able to turn a rod down in the fashion of the the Derby Worx tool (Pro Hub Tool?)

with a pin that is a hair bigger or smaller...

Perhaps a series of these pins would get things pretty snug in that respect.

I have always wondered about what the pin does to the inside of the bore though.

If the pin is polished nicely then it might not be scratching the bore more than an axle...

But it seems like the force on that pin might be greater than an axle during the transition.
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Vitamin K
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Vitamin K »

Laserman wrote:A machinist would be able to turn a rod down in the fashion of the the Derby Worx tool (Pro Hub Tool?)

with a pin that is a hair bigger or smaller...

Perhaps a series of these pins would get things pretty snug in that respect.

I have always wondered about what the pin does to the inside of the bore though.

If the pin is polished nicely then it might not be scratching the bore more than an axle...

But it seems like the force on that pin might be greater than an axle during the transition.
Pin seems fairly well polished, but you do bring up a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't own any pin gages, so I can't do a before/after check.

I do intend to do bore prep /after/ shaving the wheels down for outside trueness, though.

Speaking of bore prep, I've always wondered how much the bore gets enlarged by polishing with a q-tip stem and novus 2. Hmm.
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sporty
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by sporty »

Vitamin K wrote:
Laserman wrote:A machinist would be able to turn a rod down in the fashion of the the Derby Worx tool (Pro Hub Tool?)

with a pin that is a hair bigger or smaller...

Perhaps a series of these pins would get things pretty snug in that respect.

I have always wondered about what the pin does to the inside of the bore though.

If the pin is polished nicely then it might not be scratching the bore more than an axle...

But it seems like the force on that pin might be greater than an axle during the transition.
Pin seems fairly well polished, but you do bring up a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't own any pin gages, so I can't do a before/after check.

I do intend to do bore prep /after/ shaving the wheels down for outside trueness, though.

Speaking of bore prep, I've always wondered how much the bore gets enlarged by polishing with a q-tip stem and novus 2. Hmm.


.003

Sometimes .002.

If you are new at it and over due it .005
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by bracketracer »

sporty wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
Pin seems fairly well polished, but you do bring up a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't own any pin gages, so I can't do a before/after check.

I do intend to do bore prep /after/ shaving the wheels down for outside trueness, though.

Speaking of bore prep, I've always wondered how much the bore gets enlarged by polishing with a q-tip stem and novus 2. Hmm.


.003

Sometimes .002.

If you are new at it and over due it .005

Sporty, are you missing a zero there maybe? I don't know that I've ever made one more than .0005 larger with polishing. I can't imagine going .005 larger.
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sporty
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by sporty »

You are indeed correct.

I messed up and left out a (0).

Thank you for catching that.


If I have a .0965 wheel bore.

The most I have seen is a .0970 change.

.0005..

Sorry about that.

Many times. My .0965 will just be a tad loose. Yet the .0970 will be to tight to fit still.

I only have .0005 increments pins.

Sporty
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Topspin.D »

A machinist would be able to turn a rod down in the fashion of the ...
If you're going to go through the trouble of making a version of the tool... you might as well just put the wheels on the lathe while you're there... right?

;)
Speedster
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Re: Making Wheels Round

Post by Speedster »

We would like the scout to ultimately do the work and give him the best tool possible to achieve a round wheel. Even if an adult had a lathe and was competent with it, the scout is not allowed to use it per Boy Scout rules on power tools. Scouts seem to enjoy, for a short period of time, turning the wheel on the tool because they can easily understand what they're trying to accomplish. Even if they don't improve the wheel they remember what they have done and know they did their best. Again, they seem to enjoy it and I think it helps them feel it's their car.
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