Want to take it to the next level

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
BattleBorn
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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by BattleBorn » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:39 pm

Speedster wrote:Keep in mind the nail does not turn.
I don't sand the axles at all. I remove the casting marks under the head with a 3 corner file by mounting the nail in the drill press. I do not turn on the drill press. I carefully file the casting marks away. I then polish the Zinc coating with Brasso with a cotton attachment on my Dremel at High Speed. Then the Lemon Pledge, buff it lightly and then the graphite. I have never used oil. I think it's hard to improve a stock BSA nail by sanding it.
You might consider I might be the only one treating BSA nails this way. You choose what is best for you and your team.
Best
Speedster
Fair enough, out of curiosity, have you ever used Sailkote on the axles? I was curious to know if anyone could rank the Sailkote vs. Pledge? Also, regarding the Walgreens Q-tips, are there different versions or are the ones I'm looking for plastic stems? I found the studio35beauty but it was my understanding from reading this thread that the stems were cotton and these are clearly not cotton.



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Speedster » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:27 am

I have never used Sailkote.
You do not want the plastic stems. The shaft is made from paper. After it gets wet from the Novus 2 it deteriorates and is dirty from cleaning the bore. I use a new shaft for each wheel.

Allow me to repeat a story I shared sometime ago.
A racer was caught with bent axles at our District race. I gave him 4 raw BSA axles. He inserted them in his car in front of the inspector and me and went on to win 1st place. I have no idea what he had done to the wheel bores. From that time on I don't spend much time on the nails. The wheel bores are a different story.
email me your mailing address and I'll send you some swabs.
Last edited by Speedster on Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by BattleBorn » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:02 am

Speedster wrote:I have never used Sailkote.
You do not want the plastic stems. I think the shaft is made from paper. After it gets wet from the Novus 2 it deteriorates and is dirty from cleaning the bore. I use a new shaft for each wheel.

Allow me to repeat a story I shared sometime ago.
A racer was caught with bent axles at our District race. I gave him 4 raw BSA axles. He inserted them in his car in front of the inspector and me and went on to win 1st place. I have no idea what he had done to the wheel bores. From that time on I don't spend much time on the nails. The wheel bores are a different story.
email me your mailing address and I'll send you some swabs.
That's interesting, I spent almost no time on the bores in the past. I always wondered how folks were getting their wheels to spin for 20s+ I could never do that! Do you think theirs anything to that graphite/alcohol paste? Seems to make sense to me since the graphite never seems to stick. Anyways, I planned on working with my son this morning on the wheels so we'll take a trip to walgreens and see if we can find the cotton stems, if not I'll shoot you an email the race isn't until the end of the month, many thanks for the offer really appreciate it!



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Speedster » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:42 am

I don't like the sound of that graphite/alcohol.
You are building a film on the surface and it will stick . Same is true if you apply graphite to the nail. You can't see graphite but Doc Jobe says it is there.

I have a box of studio35beauty - 500 count. The back of the box reads:
Double-tipped cushioned cotton swabs
100% natural cotton
Soft and hygienic with firm paper sticks
ideal for baby, beauty, health care and crafts

Other things that have been already mentioned might work just as well with the Novus 2. The Walgreens shaft is simply my personal preference.



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Vitamin K
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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Vitamin K » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:08 pm

I don't think I'll ever bother with Q-tip stems again, since trying the Tamiya 87106 swabs. No more worry of destroyed bores.

That's interesting to me that you don't do any sanding on your axles, Speedster. How do they come out looking when you're done?



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Speedster » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:11 am

The axles look almost like they did coming out of the box.
What is our goal? What do we want this nail to do for us to help us make our car go faster? We want a smooth surface. The nail comes with a zinc coating that is very smooth. The tips of your fingers are very sensitive. Autobody repairman, with a flat hand, will rub their fingers back and forth over where their Bondo repair meets the metal. The fingers are so sensitive they can detect any deviation where the Bondo meets the metal and the repairman knows whether it's close enough he can correct the deviation with primer/surfacer. Take a magnet and stick it on the head of the nail and rub your thumb and forefinger over the shaft of the nail. It's very smooth, isn't it? You don't feel anything until you get to the casting marks. I gently remove the casting marks with a small 3 corner file or with the Dremel tool and a very thin cutting wheel. I bought a pair of "Reading glasses" from Walmart long ago to hep me see what I was doing. If at this point I would take a strip of 3M, 3000 grit, Trizact Performance Paper, Part # 03064, available from Auto Zone, and sand the axles I would be putting marks on the zinc coating. Have I improved the axle in anyway? I don't know and I quit doing it. I now have a very smooth surface for the wheel bore to ride on. I polish the axle with Brasso and my Dremel because it makes me feel good, coat it with Lemon Pledge, buff it with a strip of clean handkerchief, and apply graphite the Maximum Velocity way.
I have watched folks spinning that nail in a drill and grinding away at it with a file. It seems to me that is not helping get what you desire. To each his own.
OK, it's time to go to work on the wheels. This is going to take some time.
Best
Speedster



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by whodathunkit » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:35 am

Vitamin K wrote:I don't think I'll ever bother with Q-tip stems again, since trying the Tamiya 87106 swabs. No more worry of destroyed bores.
:thumbup:

Speedster, are you leaving the crimp marks on the shaft along.. and just knocking off the burrs at the points and heads.
& turning the 3 crimps down in the bore to act as grooved axle with the two crimp marks on top...if i recall that is how the axle is egg shaped.
It's been awhile and i could be wrong on the orientation of the egg shaping from stamping when made.

Okay Speedster spill the beans..
What way are you orientation the crimp marks in the bore?
Larger size axles with ( legal speedster grooves ).. :thinking: no wounder your the only one doing it!!!


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by BattleBorn » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:04 am

Speedster wrote:I don't like the sound of that graphite/alcohol.
You are building a film on the surface and it will stick . Same is true if you apply graphite to the nail. You can't see graphite but Doc Jobe says it is there.

I have a box of studio35beauty - 500 count. The back of the box reads:
Double-tipped cushioned cotton swabs
100% natural cotton
Soft and hygienic with firm paper sticks
ideal for baby, beauty, health care and crafts

Other things that have been already mentioned might work just as well with the Novus 2. The Walgreens shaft is simply my personal preference.
Hi Speedster, I was able to find the swabs, same exact name just one version is with a red (plastic) stem and the other is with a white (cotton) stem. Question, do you wet the stems before apply the compound? How do you know when you're done? I was looking at some raw bores that "looked" pretty smooth to me without any polish so I was wondering how you know when to stop?



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Speedster » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:45 pm

Whoda, lately I've been removing the casting marks on the shaft with the Dremel and a very thin cutting disc. I take the marks down below the level of the shaft. After that I'm not concerned the position of the axle to the bore.

BB, I do not wet the shaft. Put Novus 2 on the shaft and also some in the bore. Stick the shaft out of the drill about 1" or you'll never get it started. Start from the inside hub and run the drill slowly to medium speed for 15 seconds. Wash out the bore with water and dry. I have a small magnifying glass I bought from Derby Evolution that works for me. Polish a second time the same way as the 1st and inspect again. The bore should shine and shine.



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by BattleBorn » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:53 pm

Speedster wrote:Whoda, lately I've been removing the casting marks on the shaft with the Dremel and a very thin cutting disc. I take the marks down below the level of the shaft. After that I'm not concerned the position of the axle to the bore.

BB, I do not wet the shaft. Put Novus 2 on the shaft and also some in the bore. Stick the shaft out of the drill about 1" or you'll never get it started. Start from the inside hub and run the drill slowly to medium speed for 15 seconds. Wash out the bore with water and dry. I have a small magnifying glass I bought from Derby Evolution that works for me. Polish a second time the same way as the 1st and inspect again. The bore should shine and shine.
I noticed that when using canted axles (2.5 Deg) and the recommended spacing between the hub & body that the top of the wheel almost touches the body. Do you guys add some additional spacing in this scenario or leave it as is? It doesn't quite touch but it's awfully close.



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Vitamin K » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:36 pm

BattleBorn wrote:
Speedster wrote:Whoda, lately I've been removing the casting marks on the shaft with the Dremel and a very thin cutting disc. I take the marks down below the level of the shaft. After that I'm not concerned the position of the axle to the bore.

BB, I do not wet the shaft. Put Novus 2 on the shaft and also some in the bore. Stick the shaft out of the drill about 1" or you'll never get it started. Start from the inside hub and run the drill slowly to medium speed for 15 seconds. Wash out the bore with water and dry. I have a small magnifying glass I bought from Derby Evolution that works for me. Polish a second time the same way as the 1st and inspect again. The bore should shine and shine.
I noticed that when using canted axles (2.5 Deg) and the recommended spacing between the hub & body that the top of the wheel almost touches the body. Do you guys add some additional spacing in this scenario or leave it as is? It doesn't quite touch but it's awfully close.
How tall is your body? Thin to win, and all that.

If I was running a tall body car with canted rears, I would likely shave out some wood to allow wheel clearance.



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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by whodathunkit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:40 am

Speedster wrote:Whoda, lately I've been removing the casting marks on the shaft with the Dremel and a very thin cutting disc. I take the marks down below the level of the shaft. After that I'm not concerned the position of the axle to the bore.

So when doing so are you spinning the axle in the drill press while the cutting disk on the Dremel is doing the same?
I would enjoy seeing your set up for this Speedster!



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What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Speedster
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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by Speedster » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:44 am

We use the drill press simply to hold the nail. A grooved axle is against our rules. We remove only the casting mark. I say "We" because the scout is always with me when work is being done on his car. I show the scout the rules regardless of his age and explain why we are doing what we are doing. My scout changes frequently, sometimes from year to year.

It's interesting that a scout spins his nail in a drill and grinds away at it with a file which then creates a grooved axle. He is now breaking the rules. That's fine with me if that's what he wants to do. I know my team can never be accused of it.



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Want to take it to the next level

Post by whodathunkit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:16 pm

Okay I'm with you now!
I was not sure
If you were spinning the axle in the drill press while removing the crimp marks with the Dremel!
Makes since now that your only holding the axle in the drill press and letting the Dremel tool do the grinding on the crimp marks.

Like you said
For the burrs at the axle head as well!





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Re: Want to take it to the next level

Post by BattleBorn » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:20 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
BattleBorn wrote:
I noticed that when using canted axles (2.5 Deg) and the recommended spacing between the hub & body that the top of the wheel almost touches the body. Do you guys add some additional spacing in this scenario or leave it as is? It doesn't quite touch but it's awfully close.
How tall is your body? Thin to win, and all that.

If I was running a tall body car with canted rears, I would likely shave out some wood to allow wheel clearance.
It's 'fairly thin,' about 5/8" but I think I see the problem, in my infinite wisdom I sanded the inside of the wheel flush with the outside so that the inner hub/tread are on the same plane instead of the hub sticking out ~1/16". I believe it's beneficial to keep the inner hub sticking out further than the tread if only to keep the wheel from rubbing up against the body?



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