Any recommendations for car design? Help appreciated...

Speedster · Post by **Speedster** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:09 am

I was told yesterday the Girl Scouts and Cub Scouts are gong to drop the age of children joining the scouts. I don't have that Official yet. Can you see children smaller then the little Tigers staging their precious cars? That would be Great !!!!! If they raise the weight limit on these cars a little bit the kids will be driving them down the track themselves.

Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:25 am

Speedster wrote:I was told yesterday the Girl Scouts and Cub Scouts are gong to drop the age of children joining the scouts. I don't have that Official yet. Can you see children smaller then the little Tigers staging their precious cars? That would be Great !!!!! If they raise the weight limit on these cars a little bit the kids will be driving them down the track themselves.

Our Pack experimented with a pilot Lions program (5 year olds) this past year. We got a good response, and had 15 boys in our Lions den. Of these, 7 entered cars in our Pack's Pinewood Derby.

Speedster · Post by **Speedster** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:37 am

Yep, "The Lions". Thank You. I'll have to get more info from our leader.

derbypain · Post by **derbypain** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Hey guys my son has been practicing bending nails and I think he has it down. So today we went out to practice on a blank 3/8 inch think piece of pine with the sole purpose of him getting better at routing out a ladder type design car. It did not go the best it could have. We were using a drill press with a router bit and I quickly realized there is too much vibrations.... After some education I think the drill press is to slow in the rpm department for a router bit to properly work... Getting to the point... What are you guys using or creating to get the nice smooth routed out cuts... Any clues are appreciated. Pics are appreciated as well.

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Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:32 pm

derbypain wrote:Hey guys my son has been practicing bending nails and I think he has it down. So today we went out to practice on a blank 3/8 inch think piece of pine with the sole purpose of him getting better at routing out a ladder type design car. It did not go the best it could have. We were using a drill press with a router bit and I quickly realized there is too much vibrations.... After some education I think the drill press is to slow in the rpm department for a router bit to properly work... Getting to the point... What are you guys using or creating to get the nice smooth routed out cuts... Any clues are appreciated. Pics are appreciated as well.

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I have no abilities with routing. We start with a 1/4" thick piece of wood and then cut out the pockets for weight and weight reduction with a scroll saw. We then use a file to make sure that the tungsten pockets accommodate the required number of cubes. Next we glue a piece of 1/64" thick birch plywood to the bottom of the car (some prefer to put the plywood on the top) with wood glue and clamp the car between two discarded bodies while it dries.

The end result looks something like this:

derbypain · Post by **derbypain** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:50 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
derbypain wrote:Hey guys my son has been practicing bending nails and I think he has it down. So today we went out to practice on a blank 3/8 inch think piece of pine with the sole purpose of him getting better at routing out a ladder type design car. It did not go the best it could have. We were using a drill press with a router bit and I quickly realized there is too much vibrations.... After some education I think the drill press is to slow in the rpm department for a router bit to properly work... Getting to the point... What are you guys using or creating to get the nice smooth routed out cuts... Any clues are appreciated. Pics are appreciated as well.

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I have no abilities with routing. We start with a 1/4" thick piece of wood and then cut out the pockets for weight and weight reduction with a scroll saw. We then use a file to make sure that the tungsten pockets accommodate the required number of cubes. Next we glue a piece of 1/64" thick birch plywood to the bottom of the car (some prefer to put the plywood on the top) with wood glue and clamp the car between two discarded bodies while it dries.

The end result looks something like this:

OK scroll saw.. Good deal.. Not familiar with a scroll saw... Do you have to disconnect the blade and reinstall to scroll the inner portions of the frame out or is it a quick release/reconnect process? I assume you have to drill a hole in the area to scroll out to get started? Is it pretty easy to get a good 90 degree corner?

Lastly do you have a recommendation for how many tpi (teeth per inch) on your blade to get a smooth cut.

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Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:12 pm

derbypain wrote: OK scroll saw.. Good deal.. Not familiar with a scroll saw... Do you have to disconnect the blade and reinstall to scroll the inner portions of the frame out or is it a quick release/reconnect process? I assume you have to drill a hole in the area to scroll out to get started? Is it pretty easy to get a good 90 degree corner?

Lastly do you have a recommendation for how many tpi (teeth per inch) on your blade to get a smooth cut.

The blade connect/release is a pretty quick mechanism, even on my Harbor Freight cheapie. You do have to drill a hole into which to insert the blade when you're cutting out central pieces.

For 90 degree angles, I will cut one side of the angle, then come at the other side from the other direction. Trying to turn a corner that sharp in a single cut is asking for trouble.

Another option is to drill holes in all of the corners, so that the corner is already punched out. Of course, this means that the corners will be slightly overcut, but it's not a huge problem.

For a thin substrate, like a top cut on a 1/4" body, you can use a fairly fine blade, like 20 TPI.

Whodathunkit should weigh in here...he is a Scroll Saw ninja.

derbypain · Post by **derbypain** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:02 pm

Vitamin K thanks on scroll saw... On you picture example what wheelbase are you using? 5"?

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Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:45 pm

derbypain wrote:Vitamin K thanks on scroll saw... On you picture example what wheelbase are you using? 5"?

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Correct, it is a 5" wheelbase car.

LightninBoy · Post by **LightninBoy** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:11 pm

Vk is money again.

whodathunkit · Post by **whodathunkit** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:06 am

Scroll saw
A narrow-blade saw for cutting decorative spiral lines or patterns.
Or a narrow saw mounted vertically in a frame and operated with up-&-down
motion,used for cutting curved ornamental designs.

The brand name scroll saw blades I use most are the Olson reverse skip tooth.
2/0- 12R.
For thin fine woods like what VK is showing in his photos!
The balsa or basswood top I'd use the 2/0 or 2R blades to cut with.

Now for the frame if cutting in half to make thinner I'd use a 5R- 9R range for blade range for rip cutting the block down.

For the cut outs in the 1/4 tick frame
I'd drop back to a finer blade like the 2R if I had very tight corners to cut!
If corners don't matter so much I'd use a 5R blade.
There are some tips you can use to make tighter cuts.. And that's to round over the back side of the blade..
To help make a tighter corner with the thicker blade types!

Plus there are all different types and name bands of blades for scroll saws.
Some say they use the Flying Dutchman brand blades.
There a good blade I use them in my scroll saw works as well.

However I use the Olson brand blades
Because there are more readily available to me in hardware stores.
The Olsen blade charts are also handy for selecting the best blade type for the material used.

Some blade types are:
Standard tooth
Skip tooth
Double tooth
Reverse skip tooth
Precision ground tooth
Crown tooth
Spiral

Depending on your scroll saw blade chucks
There is a smooth end or pined end blade type as well.
As for sizes of blades there numbered,
0/2 -12.

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Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:31 am

Whoda, I've never tried the reverse tooth, but I am keen on anything that makes cutting profiles on the scrollsaw easier! (Though, I do have a bandsaw, so some of that pain is offloaded).

Is there any more risk of the piece being jerked upwards by the reverse tooth blades? I have a little "foot" thing (somewhere) for the saw, but I tend not to use it because it gets in the way.

whodathunkit · Post by **whodathunkit** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:05 am

I here you on the hold down foot getting in the way sometimes!

I like the reverse tooth blades because of the cleaner cuts I get with using them.
Thay cut on the up-&-down stroke of the blade movement.
Yes there is a chance of lifting but I wouldn't say it's any worse then the rest of the blade types!
Sap and knotty grains in the wood or how quickly the wood is turned..(feed rate of the work into the blade.)
Plays a roll in that as well with the hold down removed.

Maybe I need to start doing some scroll saw tip topics.
Or give out more info on what blade types
I'm using while sharing build photos.
Thanks VK I'll see what I can do!

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derbypain · Post by **derbypain** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:49 am

whodathunkit wrote:I here you on the hold down foot getting in the way sometimes!

I like the reverse tooth blades because of the cleaner cuts I get with using them.
Thay cut on the up-&-down stroke of the blade movement.
Yes there is a chance of lifting but I wouldn't say it's any worse then the rest of the blade types!
Sap and knotty grains in the wood or how quickly the wood is turned..(feed rate of the work into the blade.)
Plays a roll in that as well with the hold down removed.

Maybe I need to start doing some scroll saw tip topics.
Or give out more info on what blade types
I'm using while sharing build photos.
Thanks VK I'll see what I can do!

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That is great information! Thanks Whoda and VK. I am looking at purchasing a scroll saw currently so this information will tie right into where I would be going next... Blade types and recommendations. I have a band saw we use for cutting off the small body from the large blocks but the scroll saw is the missing link. For some reason I thought everyone was routing these cars out but the scroll seems much more capable and quicker.

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Vitamin K · Post by **Vitamin K** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:09 pm

derbypain wrote: That is great information! Thanks Whoda and VK. I am looking at purchasing a scroll saw currently so this information will tie right into where I would be going next... Blade types and recommendations. I have a band saw we use for cutting off the small body from the large blocks but the scroll saw is the missing link. For some reason I thought everyone was routing these cars out but the scroll seems much more capable and quicker.

There are some folks who make some beautiful light bodies with a router setup (or even a dremel with plunge attachment), so I'm definitely not knocking it as an option. I just go the route I described because I have no router, nor knowledge of how best to use one.

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