Pro Body Tool 3.0

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
Kindintentions
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Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Kindintentions »

Has anyone tried the DerbyWorx Pro Body Tool 3.0. https://www.maximum-velocity.com/produc ... dytool3-0/

Just saw it on maximum velocity and it is advertised to drill a negative 3 degree cant along with a raised wheel, and has drill bushing so the holes will not degrade. Could be a cheaper alternative to the Block, Silver Bullet Pro, or even the clear jig, but wondering if anyone has got their hands on it to determine how accurate it is and how easy it is to mess up the drilling. I assume it would be better than using the Pro Body Tool 2.0 with pin gauges to drill cant, but wondering how much better. TIA.
Eagle
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Eagle »

I do not have the one in the link. I do have a Clear Jig (the one you linked copied). The clear jig also has the bushings to drill the front. You can add a fifth bushing that allows a Scout to use a straight axle on the DF. The cool thing about the clear jig is it is clear acrylic, so you can see the bottom of your car body to line up your line. It is also longer, so there is a better chance of drilling your holes square to the body.
Speedster
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Speedster »

I'm curious who is recommending a 3 degree cant and why. Is there any science to back this up?

We bend the dominant front nail to steer the car. Why not do the same thing for the rears? I know I'm Off Topic but I am curious.
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Eagle »

Speedster I don't think 3 is a magic number. The difference between drilling the holes canted and using straight axles and drilling straight holes and using bent axles is the amount of time it takes to tune it.

The science of either way of doing it is the same. Less friction due to less surface of the wheel on the track.

Bent axles allow for more ability to tune and likely even allows extra correction for a bad drill. But, it takes hours and hours to get those rear axles just right. And then you have to hope and pray the car doesn't get bumped or knocked. If it does you have to start all over. I know some guys glue their axles. I have not been brave enough to do that. Always afraid that the fumes will ruin the edge of the inner hub or worse.
Kindintentions
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Kindintentions »

I believe both the clear jig ($125) and the silver bullet pro ($225) drill canted holes at 3 degrees. Those prices are a bit much, but if the Pro Body Tool 3.0 is able to give you the same drill as the two more expensive jigs, it might be worth it at the lower price point. Plus the drill bushings allow many scouts to use the tool before it is worn out. I know at our workshops the pro body tool 2.0 that is offered for use is pretty worn out, and generally needs to be replaced every year as the #43 bit no longer fits snugly in the holes.

As for whether or not 3 degrees is a magic number I can only say that Eagle's explanation sounds accurate, but I have not done any studies to know why.
Speedster
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Speedster »

OK, Gentlemen, just one last comment if I may. Doesn't the price of those tools try to tell you something?
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Eagle »

As to prices. The bushings are expensive. You can look them up yourself. The Clear Jig has a min of twice as many. I do not understand the Silver Bullet pricing.

As to number of drills, of course you are going to get more drills with the hardened bushing then with the soft aluminum.

There are cheaper ways to drill a hole. Heck you can even use the slots. But, as important as rear alignment is I challenge you to come up with a way to come up with a consistent way to come up with a more consistent way for just about anyone to get a great drill job over and over. None of them will be perfect. You'll still need to check and massage them.

As to the latest from DerbyWorx if you want one I suggest you get one. Either they aren't the quality Joel expected (he pulled them off DE website), or they are running out of bushings and don't intend to make any more (limited quantities on MV).

Same is true with a Clear Jig. I only know of one website that you can purchase one right now. With the pandemic, who knows when Micro will purchase more bushings.0

Also, I thought the DerbyWorx original tool was for #44 not #43. If you are using #43 that means you are no longer using Scout axles. So, with your knowledge you likely already know that if you want to go Pro speed you are going to have to spend more than your average Scout.
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murphken
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by murphken »

I purchased one of these from MaxV and the holes are very accurate. Bill at Derby Worx makes good products at a reasonable price. I recommend this tool.
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Eagle
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Eagle »

I reached out to Derbyworx to see if they would modify and/or be doing so as to use like Po Body Jig. I was told no. I was disappointed, so I didn't go any further. Murph good to know. Did you check the drills using one of the known methods? If so, which? If no, how did you know you were getting good drill?
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Speedster »

I have my bender set for 1 1/2 degrees and all 3 wheels get that. More then that you get disqualified or you need to change wheels and axles. That wasn't my scout but we watched it happen. I honestly have never spent much time aligning the rears. Once they roll forward and backward and stay at the axle head I glue them in. I think 2 things work in our favor.

1. I have the same type track in my garage that we race on at Pack and District. The District uses our 4 lane Best track.

2. We don't have to race you guys.
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Eagle »

Speedster I hope you will come race at http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com

I'm sure what you are doing works. You have been doing it for years. For most it is more than enough to put them out front. I'm certain that over the years you have helped create hundreds if not thousands of memories that sometimes included winning the race.

I also know that as the times get faster and faster guys are finding speed in precision and cleanliness.
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Speedster »

Mr. Eagle, Thank You for those kind words.

Our success is due to Derbytalk and our Districts fairly strict rules. I Love our rules. Each year I have been fortunate to get at least one scout who is absorbed with speed and didn't care what shape his car was. That's the scout I want. Don't get me wrong. I love to see those BIG, BULKY cars made for design. In fact, they're my favorite. OK, I'm kidding.

Enjoy time spent with your scouts.
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murphken
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by murphken »

Eagle,
I have about 100 drill bits for PWD cars. All collected over 10 years ago when my son was in Scouts and I was racing leagues. All commercial bits were classified for actual diameters and I matched up to the drill guide bushing in the tool.
"Proper car alignment dominates anything else a scout can to to make a fast car. Good wheels/axles will be marginal on a poorly aligned car."
From my perspective, you only need a tool for the rear axles. The rear axle alignment is everything. Those rear axles have to be placed perfect. If not, the car will be slow. You need to find the sweet spot on the rears. Tricks like slightly turning the axle while in the car body are used to find that crucial sweet spot. How to find the sweet spot? Tricky and has some art to the process. Some cars just will not align....
If I would build a car running on three wheels, I could drill the front axle hole without a guide. I am using a bent axle to set the DOM drift so no biggie on the front DOM axle hole.
I do a few car bodies for fun. I use the car bodies to take pictures of my wheels. I still have my alignment table and still have the ability to tune a car. I can set-up a car on the alignment table and have pretty good correlation to a fast car.
I have not raced a car in 10 years. The last time I raced was live in Minnesota when Warren took back control of the league. I will never race again. Those new racers would smoke me with all the aerodynamics and new secrets that they are using. I gave away all my oil secrets. My only advantage is my wheels.
I will share a secret with you... Murph can still cut a PWD wheel that is smooth as silk. We use a bore process that really changed the results of spin tests of wheels. We dry wax wheel bores. Step-change in spin test validation. You guys can figure it out. I let the cat out of the bag. :D
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Loud2ns
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by Loud2ns »

There's guys still running your oil! I saw it at MA this past year. Lol

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murphken
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Re: Pro Body Tool 3.0

Post by murphken »

There are many vendors claiming speed with their oil. They are selling a mixture of the oils that I posted. There is nothing new that is superior to the lubricity of these straight chain perfluorinated oils. If there was, I would be the first to know. I do tribology.
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