SuperTrack Reviews?

Commercial tracks.
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gpraceman
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SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by gpraceman »

Is there anyone that had bought SuperTimer's plastic surface track? I'd be curious to hear some reviews about it. My impressions from looking at their website is that it would be a fast surface, but the "sprinkler pipe" support structure looks very flimsy.
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by asatxj »

My club is planning on buying one shortly. I like the warranty, and the fact that if a section gets damaged, I can replace it inexpensively. Electronics seem pretty useable too. I wanted Aluminum but if it gets bent, you have to toss it. I'll give an update after we use it.

Does anyone know of a better option, my Church Board is swallowing hard when I tell them how much I need (I have $300 of the $800 already).
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Re: SuperTrack!!!

Post by asatxj »

We bought it and ran it! Here are some observations--
1) Starter soleinoid was defective- had to get new one Fed Ex'd in replacement worked great.
2) track goes together well but we are going to buy another section and use it to make joiners to help hold it together. (think the purple things on a hotwheels track)
3) TRACK IS FAST. Record time on 35' track is 2.601 (my sons car!!) This is faster than the fastest time at our regional competition on a 30' track.
4) The garage is a VERY high G stop. I'll be extending the track and developing a better stopping method after this season. I can't spend any more money right now.
5) The PVC support structure could be stronger but it's not bad. actually works pretty well. It needs some weight on it as it's pretty light. I'm going to have my electrician brother inlaw make the same thing out of metal conduit so it's even more stable.
Overall, I'd call it a good investment and the kids enjoyed the racing. The electronics are very good and we liked the racing format. Everyone got to race a lot. The concept of the best avg. time rewards consistency. Our best avg. time was 2.63 for 4 races btw. Want more info email me at asatxj@hotmail.com
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Re: SuperTrack!!!

Post by gpraceman »

asatxj wrote:2) track goes together well but we are going to buy another section and use it to make joiners to help hold it together. (think the purple things on a hotwheels track)
Did the sections not fit together well?
asatxj wrote:3) TRACK IS FAST. Record time on 35' track is 2.601 (my sons car!!) This is faster than the fastest time at our regional competition on a 30' track.
It did seem like it would be a faster surface than a wood track.
asatxj wrote:4) The garage is a VERY high G stop. I'll be extending the track and developing a better stopping method after this season. I can't spend any more money right now.
Capturing a car like that is prone to breaking off parts. It would be good for them to redesign that. Since the track does have a faster surface, it probably is better to order 42 ft long version so the cars will not be going so fast at the end.

Something else you could look at is making a version of the "Balistic Stoppers" at http://www.worldforchrist.org/races/car ... topper.htm. Making them more like a sled that the cars push to the end of the track may work out. I built some for our track, since it also has a very short stop section, and they work really well. You can see ours at http://grandprix-race-central.com/tracks.htm
asatxj wrote:5) The PVC support structure could be stronger but it's not bad. actually works pretty well. It needs some weight on it as it's pretty light. I'm going to have my electrician brother inlaw make the same thing out of metal conduit so it's even more stable.
It is a shame though, with all of the money that your Church paid for it, you would need to spend more money to provide a better support structure. My overall impression is that they go too cheap on materials.

Did you get their software? If so, was it worth the $94?
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Re: SuperTrack!!!

Post by Stan Pope »

asatxj wrote:3) TRACK IS FAST. Record time on 35' track is 2.601 (my sons car!!) This is faster than the fastest time at our regional competition on a 30' track.
Much more important than speed is consistency, run to run and lane to lane.

Do you have data for each of several cars to show us how the track fares on these criteria?
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

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Regarding track fitment- It did go together well, only one section needed a tiny mod to make it smooth and flat. I'm going to use the extra connections to make it even more secure. I tend to over engineeer things.

RE the hi g stop-- finish line is 18" from end of track not much time to stop anything. I was going to have him put the holes for sensors at 30' but decided not to. Might have been a good strategy. I prefer a long run off so the xtra section will be a minimal cost that I'll incur personally.

the support structure- No cost upgrade scrap parts will be used. I planned on doing that from the beginning.
Additional background- Wood is a poor choice here as ambient humidity is often high. the best wood tracks only last about 3-4 years before they need substantial maintenance. Also Vetoed aluminum as the cost with a timer system would have been $200 more and if a section is bent it's junk. Plastic bends better.

Sorry Stan I don't have the data right here but I know that my son's times were low of 2.601 and a high of 2.78 (poor starting position by me) with a 4 run average of 2.64. The fastest car overall never equalled the 2.601 and had a 4 run avg. of 2.63. My son's variation was the starter's(me) fault.

The software. A little steep but really worked well. We even had to add a racer at the end of the first round (kid forgets his own name, didn't check in) and it worked quite well under pressure since it was the first try. It allowed the computer guy to print a race order for each heat which made staging the cars very easy!!
I'm running it again Nov. 1 but it's without the computer as we still use the hillbilly double elim method at regionals. My brother (area GP specialist for Awana) and I are trying to change to the E.T. method that the Race Manager uses but the wheels of change move slowly!!
I'll try and get the printout of the times so I can post them.
more later
I'll check your stopping method Randy, thanks!!
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by Stan Pope »

Before you make changes to the track, please conduct a series of tests to measure the consistency of run times. This will establish a baseline for you to assure that "nothing bad happened" as a result of the changes that you make.

The tests should include at least 3 different cars.
The tests should include at least 5 runs in each lane.

I have a feeling that I am low in the numbers of repetitions needed for statistical significance. Randy is a much more accomplished statistician than I, so perhaps he can provide better recommendations on numbers of trials and how to express the results.

In particular, you want to show how consistently a car will run on each lane of the track, and you want to show how consistently a car runs from lane to lane.

At minimum you should get for each car the average and variance times in each lane and the average and variance of times across lanes.
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by gpraceman »

Stan Pope wrote:The tests should include at least 3 different cars.
The tests should include at least 5 runs in each lane.

I have a feeling that I am low in the numbers of repetitions needed for statistical significance. Randy is a much more accomplished statistician than I, so perhaps he can provide better recommendations on numbers of trials and how to express the results.
Now that I'm out of manufacturing (Thank God!) and am programming full time, those skills are falling into disuse. Assuming you do want to run tests before and after making alterations to the track, I'd suggest getting data for at least 9 runs for each car, but more is better. There is a statistical test, called the t-Test, that can be used to determine if there was a significant shift in the average time. For detecting a significant shift in the standard deviation (variation of the data), an F-Test can be done. If you collect the data, I can do the computations.

Though, if you extend the track, you don't need a t-Test to confirm that there will be a signifcant shift in the average times. It would be interesting though, if it has an effect on the standard deviation. Since there is a longer time for cars to slow down, you may very well see the variation increase.
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by asatxj »

I remember some of those things from Stats class. I may do some work of that nature some cold Saturday this winter when I don't feel like ice fishing. I'm running it Nov. 1 and Nov. 8 for our Regional competitions. I'm not using the software but I'm going to record times for few cars while I'm running the start gate just to get an idea how consistent it is.
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November 1 review

Post by asatxj »

During our setup for the big event today I took a moment and ran my test car (slow) and my kids cars on my Supertrack and a Plexiglass track built to AWANA specs with an Awana timer (YICK!!! hate those things). I ran each car on each lane on each track. Here's what I found.

Plexi track
Test car 3.4, 3.5,3.4,3.6
Courts car 2.9,2.8,2.9,3.0
Andrews car 2.8,2.8,2.9,2.9

Supertimer results (rounded to /10ths to equal rounded times from Awana)
Test car 3.3,3.4,3.4,3.5
Courts 2.7,2.7,2.8,2.8
Andrew 2.6,2.7,2.6,2.6

Recall that the Supertimer track is 34' start to finish and Awana is 30' So the results are fairly significant. I have to put the kids to bed so no major statistical analysis but everyone who watched a race or two said, "Wow that thing is fast."
BTW Andrew's Ferrari Enzo took 1st in his division and never lost a race.
Courtney was a top 5 finisher because she checked it in (hands off) before I gave it the final "once over".
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Re: November 1 review

Post by gpraceman »

asatxj wrote:During our setup for the big event today I took a moment and ran my test car (slow) and my kids cars on my Supertrack and a Plexiglass track built to AWANA specs with an Awana timer (YICK!!! hate those things). I ran each car on each lane on each track. Here's what I found.

Plexi track
Test car 3.4, 3.5,3.4,3.6
Courts car 2.9,2.8,2.9,3.0
Andrews car 2.8,2.8,2.9,2.9

Supertimer results (rounded to /10ths to equal rounded times from Awana)
Test car 3.3,3.4,3.4,3.5
Courts 2.7,2.7,2.8,2.8
Andrew 2.6,2.7,2.6,2.6

Recall that the Supertimer track is 34' start to finish and Awana is 30' So the results are fairly significant. I have to put the kids to bed so no major statistical analysis but everyone who watched a race or two said, "Wow that thing is fast."
It will be hard to draw any definitive conclusions from a comparison of these two data sets, since they were done on different tracks, with different timers and with very few data points. A casual look at the data and knowing that the cars traveled farther on the SuperTrack, indicates that it was a faster track. However, can that be attributed to the track surface or something else? I would have thought that a plexiglas surface would be smoother than the plastic on the SuperTrack and run faster. Was the slope and length of the ramp section about the same between the two tracks?
asatxj wrote:BTW Andrew's Ferrari Enzo took 1st in his division and never lost a race. Courtney was a top 5 finisher because she checked it in (hands off) before I gave it the final "once over".
Congratulations to them, even without the "once over". Top 5 is still very good.
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by asatxj »

The slope is much steeper on the supertrack and the majority of the race is flat (25ft+-). The plexi track resembles the "awana spec" more closely but has a slightly more gradual slope (should be faster?) than the "spec". BTW Our missionary said my track wasn' "awana spec" and I didn't know there was one. The track in the catalog is just a "quick, inexpensive track that a club can build" according to the commander's catalog. Doesn't say it's "Spec"
I have used and repaired the pexi track in question many times and I can say with certainty that the supertrack is a much smoother surface. The biggest problem racers faced was the "awana grand prix" on the wheels. they contact the edge of the track and can make for a rougher ride. It's no worse than the wheel/centerguide interaction.
I know that the data I got wasn't good enought for scientific interaction but it's a point of reference. This winter I'm going to pull it out, make some adjustments and then run 4 cars extensively on it and get "real data" This is my only chance to get "side by side" data every year so I took it.

OMT this track seems to reward a car that
tracks straight (as all do)
weight is 1"-1.5" in front of rear axle
has a LWB with rear wheels as far back as possible
front wheels +-1" from front end

Extreme rear weighted cars get "loose" in the front end.
SWB cars may track straight but aren't fast.
More news about superbowl time!!
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

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asatxj wrote:BTW Our missionary said my track wasn' "awana spec" and I didn't know there was one. The track in the catalog is just a "quick, inexpensive track that a club can build" according to the commander's catalog. Doesn't say it's "Spec"
That is correct, there is no such thing as an Awana "spec" when it comes to tracks or race scheduling method, for that matter. Awana may sell some plans and only mentions double elimination in its How-To book, but nowhere can it be found any words to the effect that you must use those track plans and race double elimination.

Personally, I don't like the Awana track plans mainly due to how the track sections are connected and aligned. The only things I like about those plans is how it packs for easy storage and the start gate design.
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

Post by Stan Pope »

asatxj wrote:BTW Our missionary said my track wasn' "awana spec" and I didn't know there was one.
Maybe you should give the missionary a chance to show you the "awana spec." If he knows your track doesn't fit the spec, then he must know what the spec is and be able to show you the documentation. :)
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Re: SuperTrack Reviews?

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I did mention this to him. BTW I'm on his Ministry Board and I just happen to be the Training Director for SW Michigan so I have to "know stuff". He enjoys messing with me even though he knows it wont work very well :D For some odd reason he always plays devils advocate whenever something new comes along. He seems to carry a typical Baptist mentality "hmph, never done it that way before." Post script- I attend a Baptist church and I DON'T think that way!! Hence the "different track" 8)
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