Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Discussions on race preparation, race management, sound effects, and other race related software. This includes freeware, shareware and commercially available software.
Walt
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:54 pm

Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by Walt » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:36 pm

Hi All,

I am trying to setup the GP race manager version 2.0 software for our up n coming pack race.
What I want to do is setup the Pack as 2000, then each den underneath that.
Then I want to have races within each den, then the top 3 from each den compete between all the other dens' top 3, for the top 3 pack spots.

The problem is, once i setup the pack, add all the dens as groups, then all the cars, i goto the schedule, and when i generate a schedule, it mixes all the dens together.

I could not figure out how to make it just allow just races inside of each den(sub-group), before the finals bewteen all dens for the pack(group) race.

Is there a way to do this, or am i gonna have to, say, create the dens at the group level, let the schedule create 'den' races, race em.... then when thats done, create a 'pack' group, put all the winners from the den races into it, then schedule that, n race that...

Sorry if this sounds like a run-on.. heh
But do ya get what i mean?

Thanks!
Walt



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by gpraceman » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:56 am

Walt wrote:I could not figure out how to make it just allow just races inside of each den(sub-group), before the finals bewteen all dens for the pack(group) race.
Hello Walt,

There is a FAQ at http://grandprix-software-central.com/f ... qdesk_id=4 that would best explain setting up groups and subgroups.

For your overall race, you would start a "Grand Finals" round of the top# of racers from each race group. This will create a new group called Grand Finals and put those racers into it. From there you create your schedule and run the race just as you did in Round 1.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

Walt
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:54 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by Walt » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:01 pm

For your overall race, you would start a "Grand Finals" round of the top# of racers from each race group. This will create a new group called Grand Finals and put those racers into it. From there you create your schedule and run the race just as you did in Round 1.
I see what you are saying, however if the only group is the Pack, and there is only 1 pack, it will only create the Grand Final with the top 3 in the pack.. not the dens...

This is what i wanna do...
Race all the Tigers till i get the top 3.
Race all the Bears till i get the top 3.
Race all the Wolves till i get the top 3.
Race all the Webelos till i get the top 3.
This way i have winners from each Den.

THEN.. have all those top 3's race against each other till i get the top 3 from that, and call them the pack winners.

Soooo...
I created a group(pack) called "2000"
I then created a sub-group(den) for each den.
So now i have 1 group(2000)
and 4 sub-groups(Tigers, Bears, Wolves, and Webelos).

Now i go and create a schedule, it mixes all the dens together, and the first race is 1 car from Tigers, 1 from Wolves, and 1 from Webelos...
I dont what that.... i want to race inside of the dens first...

But whats even more confusing, is if say i go ahead and race the schedule anyways...and i then create a NEW ROUND so that the top 3 guys from each den can race... i can only add a total of 7 people to the race through the software, and it only picks the top 7 across the pack, regardless of the Den, and only schedules them...

Im confused...
It seems like im gonna have to create at the GROUP level, each den. so i can race between em, then create a Grand Final race... so it will pick the top 3 across the Dens....


Kinda wierd cause then im not creating a PACK 2000 group at all...and instead im creating a group for each den, and really cant use the sub-group at all..

This make sense to anyone?
heh
Walt



DMWOOD
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:05 am
Location: Ionia, MI

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by DMWOOD » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:29 pm

I have the new version so I don't know the difference between yours and mine. But here is what it sounds like you want to do.

Make the file name = "Pack 2000"
Make the Groups = "Tiger", "Wolf", "Bear", "Webelos"
Make the Subgroups = "Den 1", "Den 2", etc.

If you have more then one Den for each group then you pick the top 7 in those groups and have a finals for that group.

Then you can pass the top racers from the groups to the Grand Finals. To best select these racers it will depend on how many lanes you are running and weather you are using points or time.

I don't know if this will help but good luck.



User avatar
Buckeye
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:27 pm
Location: New England

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by Buckeye » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:47 pm

Only groups can be separated for competition, not sub groups. You need to setup each den as an individual group, not subgroup. Then you can race each group separately. Under software setup options, standings select 3 for the number of finalists. After each group(Den) has raced do this:

Start a Grand Finals Round
Click on the "New Round" button. A small Start a New Round screen will pop up.
Click on the "Start Grand Finals" button. The top finishers from the last round completed for each race group will be advanced into the roster for the Grand Finals round. A new group will be created named "Grand Finals". If you want, you can change who is in the Grand Finals by going to the Registration Tab.
Generate a race schedule for the Grand Finals group, as you did earlier for the other groups.
Run the race for the Grand Finals round as you did for the first round of racing.

This applies to version 4.04 which you could upgrade to for $10. I highly reccomend you do.
Hope this helps.



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by gpraceman » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:09 pm

With any version of GrandPrix Race Manager, the way the software runs the race is the same. Racing is by "competition group", however you want to define those groups. Sugroups only allow you to breakdown the group standings but have NO affect on who races who.

If you want to race by dens, then those should be your groups. Then once you have raced each den, you can start a Grand Finals Round, which will take the top# (however many you set in the Software Setup screen) from each race group (den in your case) and will put them into a "Grand Finals" group. Then you create your schedule and run the round like you did before.

As DMWOOD recommended, you can name the data file with your pack#. I would also recommend that you add the year to the filename. This way you can look back on prior year's results and see any changes in lane stats and what your average heat turnaround time was (Version 3.0 or above).


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

Walt
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:54 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by Walt » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:49 am

Ok..That makes sense now!

Thanks everyone for your help!

Im off to the races :)


Walt



LandyA
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:18 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by LandyA » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:39 pm

OK - new twist on an old post...

I would like to incorporate "team" racing at our Grand Prix this year. I'm assuming that I could follow the above advice using the GPRM v5 software. I'll assign clubbers to 1 of 4 race teams. I want to race both a Masters Division and a Clubber Division. Only the clubber division will have the teams. I want to award 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Masters. 1st, 2nd, 3rd for clubbers (individual) and then I want to award the team awards. So... will I end up using the Group for Clubber and Master and the Subgroup for teams within the Clubber division?

Thanks for your thoughts.

In Him,
Landy



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by gpraceman » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:55 pm

LandyA wrote:I would like to incorporate "team" racing at our Grand Prix this year. I'm assuming that I could follow the above advice using the GPRM v5 software.
GPRM only provides standings of indivdual racers. You can view the standings by group or subgroup, but it will just show you how individuals in that group/subgroup did against other racers in that group/subgroup.

If you are trying to see how one team (subgroup in your example) did against another team, then you would need to create a custom report. Once racing is done, you can export the raw results data and then create your own report to compile team standings. The problem with this is that the raw data only lists the group, not the subgroup. It would be easier to run each team as a group and then use the raw results to create a custom report.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

Sylvar
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:22 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by Sylvar » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:24 am

Landy,
Thats a really cool idea! Team racing could be a really good way for a Pack with overzealous parents to still have a fun derby. I will have to keep that one in mind.

Thanks!

Shane



LandyA
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:18 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by LandyA » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:29 am

Greetings,

Following up on the team idea: We could put the team name in the car name field when entering data. (My clubbers haven't really ever named their cars.) Then export the whole bunch to a well-crafted spreadsheet that would sort by team name and calculate the speed totals for each team. A little extra work, but would only take a couple of minutes. Plenty of time to announce other categories in the winners' circle.

Of course, if they all start naming their cars, we'll need some new ideas...

This is the first year we'll run teams. I don't plan on any extra races, just trying to keep clubbers interested in how others on their team perform and to get parents more involved in the building of the cars.

In Him,
Landy



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by gpraceman » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:49 am

LandyA wrote:Following up on the team idea: We could put the team name in the car name field when entering data. (My clubbers haven't really ever named their cars.) Then export the whole bunch to a well-crafted spreadsheet that would sort by team name and calculate the speed totals for each team. A little extra work, but would only take a couple of minutes. Plenty of time to announce other categories in the winners' circle.
Team racing is a very interesting idea. I would think, though, that the teams of clubbers should be a even mixture of the age groups. It may not be so fair to have say T&T clubbers as a team and comparing their results to Varsity clubbers.

If you have an open division, it may be cool to form teams of the adults. I can see this adding some friendly rivalry for "team bragging rights".

You can take advantage of the car name field as you suggest to be a basis for a custom report to determine the team standings. The raw results data is exported in CSV format so you can easily get it into MS Excel. If you know how to utilize Excel macros, you can have the macro sort and combine the results for you in short order.

I will consider doing some form of combined group and subgroup standings in the next version of GPRM.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

LandyA
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:18 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by LandyA » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:50 pm

I agree completely, Randy. In fact, I'll be hand-picking the teams. And I'll make sure there is one parent on each team that knows how to build a car and is willing to help others do the same.

Far be it from me to direct your plans for software upgrades. I'm just thrilled with the current version and can't wait for our Grand Prix to show it off.

In Him,
Landy



User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by gpraceman » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:50 pm

LandyA wrote:I agree completely, Randy. In fact, I'll be hand-picking the teams. And I'll make sure there is one parent on each team that knows how to build a car and is willing to help others do the same.
A very good idea :wink: Hopefully, that will help in the sharing of knowledge between "team members" to help the team overall.
LandyA wrote:Far be it from me to direct your plans for software upgrades. I'm just thrilled with the current version and can't wait for our Grand Prix to show it off.
Not a problem. I am always open to possible improvements to the software. I am glad that you are thrilled with the software.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

User avatar
OCTom
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:48 pm

Re: Groups, Subgroups, and Racing

Post by OCTom » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:25 am

Hi Randy:

I have been contemplating running a WIRL event in New York and thought a team category would be a great option. It would allow the members of the team to race individually and also combine their standings as a team. It is also something the cubscout districs should look into as a great way for packs to foster cooperation in sharing ideas to build the best team.

I really like the team concept and hope you can add it to the GPRM softwear.

Tom Henkler


OCTom
Orange County, NY

Post Reply