We had the Raingutter Regatta tonight

[Gavin Chafin]

We had our Raingutter Regatta tonight. Now, in the past, my son usually isn’t even halfway finished when the first boy hits the end of the gutter. Well, that darned Catamaran FLEW! It was actually kind of embarrassing. But, he ended up winning without losing a race.

That’s the good part. The bad part is I think the Pack is pretty [censored] off at me. They tried to give me a hard time about entering a Catamaran. One of the guys commented that the boat exceeded 7 inches (was nearly 7.5 inches since the rudder protrudes in the rear on Catamarans…never mind the fact that probably a dozen of the boats had the rudders glued on so that the length of the boat exceeded 7 inches). And then, to ease into trying to discuss the Catamaran issue with me (actually, a way to trick me), one of the leaders said that we had to disqualify another boat that glued a heavy washer to the keel (the boat kept tipping over in trial runs in the bathtub and the dad said it was the only way to stabilize it). My response was, “How can we disqualify it? We don’t have any rules.” The other leader’s response was the funny part. He bellowed, “The rules are in the box!” I said, “No. Those are instructions on how to assemble the boat. Those aren’t rules.” He said, “No! I called the scout office 4 years ago and the lady said that those are the rules!” First off, I’ve called the scout office before for assistance and have been given some dead-wrong answers. Secondly, and most amazingly to me, if gluing a washer to the keel (or adding any foreign part to the boat) was illegal and our Pack recognized this 4 years ago (before I was part of the Pack), then how come rules were never drafted in response to this problem that they identified 4 years ago? Our Pack is very, very lax when it comes to rules. Rules are two-pronged (and both are just as important). First off, you need to HAVE rules. Secondly, the rules need to be effectively communicated to all of the parents and the boys. I feel that if anyone is at fault here, it’s the Pack…First off for not having rules. Secondly, if they want to fallaciously argue that “The rules were in the box”, then my response is that the fact that these were the rules and that everyone needed to meticulously follow them was not “effectively communicated” to everyone involved.

Anyway, after my son won, not a single person congratulated me or my son. And, I suspect that at the next committee meeting I’m going to get attacked from all sides. I think that I’d better be prepared. I plan on printing up rules from various Pack Internet sites and demonstrating how various other Packs recognize the necessity of having rules for the Regatta. Some of the rules allow for Catamarans and some of the rules forbid splitting the hull. But, at least these Packs recognize the fact that rules are necessary and they pass out the rules to all the boys. I also intend to volunteer to draft rules. Does anyone have any advise for the next committee meeting?

[ExtremePWD]

Congratulations to your son on the win. I think you are on the right track of driving the pack to adopt rules. Besides hull design there were also questions on length and added weight. Just try and keep everyone focused on moving forward for next year and communicating early. It's probably also an opportunity to discuss if there are any other pack competitions that could benefit from improved rules.

[Cory]

Does anyone have any advise for the next committee meeting?

With all respect...

When we attempt to "effectively communicate" our PWD rules, one point we try to make is that folks should ask questions if they have any uncertainty about what is allowed.

From reading your previous thread, I think you knew that your catamaran was going to be controversial, especially if it performed well. Yet I don't see any indication that you made any effort to resolve this problem before the regatta.

I think you're right on target about getting your Pack to adopt rules and communicate them. And I have no problem with creativity within the rules.

I might have picked a different strategy, though.

[TurtlePowered]

Good luck getting rules implemented. We just had our Regatta race Friday. We had a bit of problems with the younger scouts pushing the boats with straws instead of just blowing them and the people running the race refusing to really call them on it. Lots of sad boys when they lost to somebody cheating.

[Da Graphite Kid]

Gavin,

Congrats to your son!

I think that you are now taking the best course (pun intended) for steering your Pack in the right direction. Let's face it, we all need rules if we expect to live a 'civilized' existance, so why should any of the derbies be different? I've e-mailed you our Pack rules which have been developed over several years. This year we had our first catamaran and the dad who built it (for our all-comers race) questioned me about it the whole way. All I could do is let him know what was and was not within the rules as they were stated. It was killing me to do this too as I had already split a boat hull and had plans on building a 'Cat for the all-comers race as well. With him asking me questions and showing me drawings, I just couldn't build one and show up with it on race day. Now next year is a different matter...

I think that you need to be proactive. No one I know of can change what has happened in the past and the only way for others to think that the race will be fair in the future is to have some rules and (here is the catch) make everyone abide by those rules. Don't go to the committee with a head full of steam as others far wiser than me tell me this is not the way to get anything accomplished. Instead show them how any misunderstandings may have been avoided by having rules that were clearly communicated and understood by everyone. Look over the rules you get and draft what you think is fair from them. Be ready to explain why and why not a certain rule should be what it is but don't get defensive about it. If they adopt any rules at all than the Pack is one step farther along than they were for this year's race.

FYI: I'm the hardnosed person in our Pack who believes in following the rules. I would have DQ'd your son's boat for being over 7 inches long (our Pack rule). I would have also congradulated him for the unique design and allowed him 5 minutes to relocate the rudder!


Da Graphite Kid

[clemsontigerfanatic]

I'm thinking of getting first Rain Gutter Regatta started in early fall . We have a large den 10 kids large pack 50 kids.

Away from Cubmobile/ Pinewood Derby in April/March. and Popcorn in late fall.

To all of you that have done a few of these. I have a few questions.
1) Outlaw or promote Catermerans? Are these more fun , easy to build?

2) How much shoud Webelos be doing at the Den Meeting and how much at Home?

3) If it was you , would you do the first one with one den or invite the whole Pack with no one having any prior experience?

Thanks guys I apperciate your responses and this forum

[Stephen's Dad]

What sort of boats are used in Raingutter Regatta?

The kits in our Council Shop look as if they also would "keel over".

If these are the best kits available, then perhaps an open class no rules race is better. Thus the most effective use of mind & hand stands the greatest chance of winning.

[TurtlePowered]

Away from Cubmobile/ Pinewood Derby in April/March. and Popcorn in late fall.

To all of you that have done a few of these. I have a few questions.
1) Outlaw or promote Catermerans? Are these more fun , easy to build?

2) How much shoud Webelos be doing at the Den Meeting and how much at Home?

3) If it was you , would you do the first one with one den or invite the whole Pack with no one having any prior experience?

1. Our rules specificy say no split hull type boats. I do think that split hull type boats would be more stable. I think having single hull type boats put more emphasis on racing the boat . It is also a easy to to build a boat like that since you have your basic shape already, great for newbe scouts.
2. Completely up to the den leader if he wants to spend his den time for this. We have not, just parent and child built at home. No reason it could not be done at a meeting though.
3. Go for the entire pack so nobody is left out. This is something all scouts can do, lightly sand a balsa boat, make a groove and glue the keel and rudder in place, and of course paint it. If you are concerned about nobody knowing how to do it maybe take part of a meeting to show the steps.
It's lot of fun.

[PwEngineer]

You are right, the BSA kit is very unstable and if built the way the derby book shows, many of your pilots will be exhausted after blowing the boats.

Our boat designs are very stable and the best can be blown with 3 puffs, 10 feet in less than 5 seconds (blower must practice) by a youngster. See a movie of a girl blowing away the competition with her custom boat (3 seconds!) and all the details at http://www.lastufka.net/lab/boats/ and there is a link to get the book I wrote showing how to convert a BSA kit.

If you understand the principles we used in building our custom hydroplane, you can likely figure out your own conversion. I really hate to hear BSA leaders writing me about how so many children are on the verge of passing out after a race with the traditional BSA boats - it isn't necessary. The race is sooooooo much more exciting with fast, stable boats. Yes, it's not as easy as slapping the mast, sail, keel and rudder on, but that's the fault of the kit. BSA should take a close look at their kits and our website to give us a less expensive, world class boat kit!

Raingutter regatta is so easy to setup, run and afford, I've often wondered why it isn't more popular. The answer I keep coming back to is the pathetic boat kits available. Unfortuneately, I'm a missionary and not in a position to start a boat kit business.

[TurtlePowered]

I really hate to hear BSA leaders writing me about how so many children are on the verge of passing out after a race with the traditional BSA boats - it isn't necessary.

I never had heard anybody having any sort of problems like that. But the kids do put some time into the boat, would like the race to be longer than 3 seconds. I think half of the fun is actually blowing the boat to make it run!