Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

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SubnetZero
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Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by SubnetZero »

Wasn't Sure where to put this..

We attended our District race today and it was a terrible experience.

I am not sure how to address what I seen, so I could use some advice. I appreciate the time and work they went through to put it on, so I want to be respectful.

I'll start with the biggest Complaint: NO AWARDS!!! NONE, Nadda, Zip..
From Best of show to over all winners, Not a Trophy, Ribbon, or even a piece of paper.. Zilch.. This was after an ENTRY Fee and TWO! (2) Corporate Sponsors!!!... I felt really bad for all the winners and the Father and son team that Obviously spent hours carving out a really tricked out convertible Jeep to walk away with nothing more than a smattering of applause....
I don't think my entire time in scouts as a youngster that I didn't get at least a participation ribbon at some major scouting function. I would have thought at the District Level they would have at least awards for winners, especially with sponsors and entry fee's..


Secondly, the Track. The Track was bad. The stopping section was worn out and the cars were smacking the end of it terribly. From flipping to a total pile up, it was equal to a brick wall. From what I seen at least %80 of the cars sustained damage, from minor to major from it. Now, if this was an "unknown" problem, ok.. But talking to several previous District competitors, This has been like this for at least the last 2-3 years. Another pack offered their newer track and was turned down last year. But yet they dont fix theirs either ?? ..

Last year, I guess there was a problem with Lane 6. Cars kept jumping the track. They kept saying it was the cars (all different), then finally adjusted it after about 9 cars went off. -- SAME THING this year! Same lane, same problem.. After 6 or 7 cars jumped it, then one finally had its front wheel ripped off the body, they decided to adjust the track.. All the while cars taking damage.

I'll leave all the other problems I seen, as they are minor in comparison.

I'm not sure what path to take in getting some of this corrected. Any and all advice appreciated. As I say, I appreciate their time and work and I really don't want to come off as some kind of Grumpy Gus, but I (and I know a few other parents) feel this needs to be addressed..
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stang68
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by stang68 »

Well i will try to make you feel a little better about this.
Awards- My son has won many awards ,trophys and plaques since he was very young,he is 19 now and still very involved with Scouting.I never here him mention one of these "TROPHYS" ever,what i do here is how much fun he had or my dad helped me with this or that.I think awards are great but trust me they are not the main purpose.
Track-The first time i seen our pack track,i was disappointed to say the least,i could not believe parents had not purchased the pack a nicer track.i know you use what you have until you can do better ,but this thing was way pass bad.I promised the boys that day that somehow next year they would have a new track,guess what,the next year they had a new Best Track with a new timer.i am not asking you to buy a new track for that pack, but do not complain if you can not help.If you complained here before you talked to those running the race you may never get things better.Work with those at the Pack you guys working together can make things better.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by Stan Pope »

Your district's professional (District Executive, District Director, etc) is the first point of contact ... not to field concerns but to get you to the person or committee with overall responsibility for the your district's PWD. You may want to attend the next district committee meeting, as well, just to be sure that you are talking to the right people.

Taking the approach that you have concerns about how the event was conducted and that you would like to help make the event better next year, you should not be perceived simply as a "complainer."

While the real payoff for the event is what you and your son had experienced before the event even began, it is still desirable that participants have some tangible recognition for accomplishments. That recognition may not mean much to him in 10 years, but when he shows his car and trophy to his Cub Scout in 20 years, the meaning will return.

It costs a few bucks to put on a PWD ... between facility rental (and we had to rent portable bleachers this year, too), liability insurance, awards and recognition (trophies, patches, ribbons, etc), track rental (whatever was paid in your PWD sounds as though it was way too much ... maybe free would be too expensive!), mailing expenses, clerical costs (duplicating, etc) and paying for a professional scouter to supervise / monitor the several aspects of the event, the $ start to add up pretty quickly. The PWD budgets that I've worked (with 5 racing and 6 design trophies for each of the 5 age groups) with nose counts c. 300 reach the $7 to $9 registration cost quickly.

My curiosity is getting the best of me. Since I also live in Central Illinois, I did a quick check of other districts in my council. Two of our four districts held their pwd on 21 Feb, so Heartland and Wotamalo appear to be innocent. Could not find other district's (Loweneu and Crossroads) PWD dates. I suspect that you live farther south, perhaps toward Springfield (Lincoln Home district?) or west Quincy & Quad Cities (West Central Illinois) as this is too early for Prairielands (East Central Illinois) to be having district PWD's ... their cycle runs later.
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SubnetZero
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by SubnetZero »

Stan, I didn't post the District on purpose. I'm not wanting to "trash" the council or public air grievances. Just need advice on which path to take.

I agree the experience is the reward, but the recognition is an important part. It was easy to see that The most unique had put many an hour into their creation.

As far as cost, It was held at a school, so no facility fees (I do know a church was offered as well last year for 0 cost).

I don't think at a minimum $8 in ribbons is too much to ask, with Corporate Sponsors and Entry fees. There were 57 kids in this race. School provided seating and they (organizers) even sold concessions...

I'll follow up with you in a PM
Last edited by SubnetZero on Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by SubnetZero »

stang68 wrote:Well i will try to make you feel a little better about this.
Awards- My son has won many awards ,trophys and plaques since he was very young,he is 19 now and still very involved with Scouting.I never here him mention one of these "TROPHYS" ever,what i do here is how much fun he had or my dad helped me with this or that.I think awards are great but trust me they are not the main purpose.
Track-The first time i seen our pack track,i was disappointed to say the least,i could not believe parents had not purchased the pack a nicer track.i know you use what you have until you can do better ,but this thing was way pass bad.I promised the boys that day that somehow next year they would have a new track,guess what,the next year they had a new Best Track with a new timer.i am not asking you to buy a new track for that pack, but do not complain if you can not help.If you complained here before you talked to those running the race you may never get things better.Work with those at the Pack you guys working together can make things better.
This is the District race, not the Pack..

I should have mentioned, We would not have gotten a Trophy. We placed 7th overall.. But we had fun designing and building the car and the anticipation on how well we would do (we took 1st at our pack) its been a very fun "season" ... I don't think a Ribbon at the District level is asking too much, am I Wrong :?:

As far as the Track, There has been one offered and rejected. A 49ft Best track that just a few years old. Complete with Software and people to setup/run it.....

I agree, The only way something is going to get better is involvement.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by getSEVEN »

It is very sad to hear the "rampant" lane malfunction and resulting damages. I'm glad you wrote your experience, in my case, for a slightly off topic reason. I don't know how we would react if we came across this at our district. You see, for us, the car is the trophy already. We aren't the best builders out there but we put a lot of time into our cars. I wouldn't want to disapoint my boy by suggesting pulling out of the race, but I also wouldn't want to see him devestated at the damage to his car either.

At least now you've caused me to think about it a little and I have a little mental preparation to talk to him, were this to happen, and get his decision.

Thanks for your story and good luck.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by mbb »

At the pack level , in our pack, every kid that competes gets a ribbon anyway if they dont win a trophy.

Agree that the car is the trophy, it will be a reminder to a kid that their dad cared enough to spend time to teach them and help them as a team.

If the dad builds the car and the kid does none of it, I promise he wont forget it, or even care about the car after a while. Too much of that does go on.

But, to the topic, a District should have had awards. Now our district is really poorly run, a month from the district derby and theres no date published, no registration form, no rules, etc. I dont know what the exec does either, but its not return email or phone calls! Every year I have to badger him to get this info. I hate to say it, but our district execs are [moderator edit]. Not necessarily intentional, it just seems to be the way it works out.

[moderator edit by gpraceman: potentially inflamatory]
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Stan Pope
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by Stan Pope »

mbb wrote:its not return email or phone calls
The is not a "race" thing ... it is a "learning thing". So, put on your Trainer's Hat! Here is the training regimen:

Give 'em a week to 10 calendar days, then follow up with a "tickler" ... a text like "What is status on this?" followed by "On 2/19/2009 mbb sent " and the complete text of the original The other difference is that this one has a CC to the council Field Director (the DE's boss). Wait another week to 10 days. If no response is forthcoming, repeat the exercise using your copy of the first tickler, sending it to the same 2 people plus the Council Executive (or, maybe, the assistant council exec, if you have one, and if the field director reports to the ACE.)

Repeat the above as necessary on future correspondence.

If you get CC's all the way to the council exec and still don't get a response, then it is time to change hobbies or check your email system!!

It works because most bosses don't like for their employees to ignore donor/volunteers. And most employees don't like for their bosses to know that they ignore donor/volunteers. And they really don't like the boss to find out that they are "repeat offenders."
Stan
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by mbb »

I havent had to do that so far, usually by the 2nd or 3rd inquisition I get a response. I dont mean to imply its racial at all on their part, Im just saying that they do a poor job of communicating. They seem to have dinners and meetings etc for leaders but they dont even post a schedule of events on the sorry excuse for a website.

Like I said, I dont think the poor communication is intentional, But they do seem to be more involved with packs from the other parts of the district, judging by newsletter blurbs about things going on, etc. Not necessarily even their fault, I doubt some of the packs in our areas have too much contact with them. I know we dont really participate in any of the district events available to cubs, nor do our leaders even inform us of them if they even know.

They probably make the info available to leaders, but OUR pack leaders arent even interested, most scouts in our pack dont even know there is a district or council race! I urged them to tell the rank winners that they can race at district and again, they didnt.

The district also seem to be much more oriented to boy scouts than cubs.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by Stan Pope »

Regardless of cause, they need a "learning experience". You should not have to ask a 3rd time, ever, and seldom a second time. So, as I said before, put on your Trainer's Hat.
Stan
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by bad_karma_2805a1 »

Mr Pope is right. Go to a District Committee meet and voice your oppion. As a PWD Chairman I can tell you that the track should have been tested and any issues worked out before the race.

No matter if it is a wooden track or an aluminum one, the set up crew should have insured that the track was good to go.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by PineNut »

Be happy that your district had a race. The first year we were in it and won the pack, there was not a district race.

We did the following year. Why? Because I ran it. Its been 4 or 5 years now. Guess what, ours is tomorrow. If I hear one complaint, that person is next years committee person. Guess how many folks stepped up? A handful. Yet, I see the same names year after year. They start from tiger all the way to Webelos. Why aren't these guys stepping up.

I'll give you the waiver for a complaint this year, but your rookie status changes for next year.

Call your District Exec and say..."How can I improve this?" Believe me, he'll love you for it.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by 12yearsrunning »

Be happy that your district had a race. The first year we were in it and won the pack, there was not a district race.

We did the following year. Why? Because I ran it. Its been 4 or 5 years now.
Good for you. Getting involved is the best way to make changes and I hope your efforts were appreciated.


To SubnetZero:
I agree with previous comments. The place to start is with the District Committee. Chairing a District derby and coordinating it with the individual packs is a major undertaking (a Council derby even more so). I'm sure the District (Program, Activities, Pinewood Derby or whatever) Chair, would appreciate any additional help they can get.

THE TRACK: Volunteer to secure the track (perhaps your pack track) or ask around and try finding a pack in the District that runs a well organized and successful derby. Ask them if they would be willing to host the District race or loan their track for the event.

RECOGNITION A local car club (BMW Club, Porchse Club, Sports Car Club of America, etc.) or automotive driven business (local race track, autoparts store, etc.) may be interested in sponsoring specific items. Trophies could have the sponsors name/logo on the also. I had a car club sponsor our race for a number of years. Their name appeared on all patches and trophies as the race sponsor.
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Re: Extremely Disappointed with District Race, Need Advice

Post by BlackLotus »

To start, I think a seventh place at District for, what seems to be, your first outing is outstanding. Kudos to your and your son.

Second, I am a little jealous that you have a district race as I have inquired several times about a council or district race and I am looked at like I am a unicorn dancing on the table. I think Mr Pope and the rest are advising a very sensible course of action. See if you can make a change from within.

Third, as for the awards. While I agree that there should be at least ribbons, I can offer some small advise. We have done two years in scouts and the first year my son did not place. We made a plaque from some scrap pine, mounted the car to it and put stickers from my wife's scrap book stuff with his average time and speed on the plaque. The second year the boy set a new track record for speed (thanks in large part to the help found here) and won the whole thing. The pack provided the boy with a plaque and we mounted the car. One guess which plaque the boy likes. He loves the one we made over the first place plaque.

Fourth, about the track. I'm concerned the organizers declined to use a better track and attempted to "fix" problems part way through the race. Without knowing your woodworking abilities, maybe you and a couple other fathers could offer to head up an effort to create a new track with Weblos from multiple packs within the district. It would be a nice donation for those boys going on to boyscouts and it would be hard for the organizers to decline such a thoughtful donation from the boys. If they declined to use that track, you probably have the wrong people running the thing.
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