Wotamalo District Races 2/20/10 Results

[ExtremePWD]

Congratulations to your grandsons, Stan. A fine showing for both.

[Stan Pope]

Congratulations to your grandsons, Stan. A fine showing for both.

Thank you, Bill. Two more "near misses!" Your old pack was well represented, again. I missed seeing you and one of your boys at the derby! A little piece of my heart gone! But, before we know it, they will be bringing their sons. That has already happened for me at my pack, when a few years ago, one of my Cub Scouts brought his Cub Scout around for some help with his car! What a feeling!

[ExtremePWD]

I helped out at the pack race this year but couldn't make district. I knew the Webelos I car was going to be tough to beat at district. I have had a chance to coach my stepson and his son for a few years as well as a few others through work. Like you, I still have a list of experiments that I would like to get to someday. I think this year's winner still had some speed left in it.

[Aron]

Stan I was a line judge for the bears and the tigers. I saw that car with the fourth wheel put back near the rear wheel. Very intresting design. I didn't stay for the finals but I thought the car that had the Ace of Spades paint scheme looked very fast too. How did he finish in the finals?

[Stan Pope]

Stan I was a line judge for the bears and the tigers. I saw that car with the fourth wheel put back near the rear wheel. Very intresting design. I didn't stay for the finals but I thought the car that had the Ace of Spades paint scheme looked very fast too. How did he finish in the finals?

The 4th grade car (lifted wheel back) was the Grand Champion. The 5th grade car (my Alex) was 2nd place. The Wolf car (my Andrew) was probably third. Can't tell about place for Tiger and Bear cars. 3rd place is "iffy" because it was set up as a double elim race. See http://www.stanpope.net/Race%20of%20Champions.pdf

I recall seeing the Ace of Spades painted on something, but I don't know if it was Tiger, Bear or Web I car.

There were no slouches in the Race of Champions, though. All deserved to be there! Some others, too ... Andrew was a narrow winner on his wolf track. Alex was a firm winner (though some close races) on the Web II track.

[Ten Thumb Tom]

Congrats to your Grandsons! Interesting that so many top competitors were "open air" rail cars - I recall seeing a PowerPoint presentation entitled "Rail Car Construction Techniques" that described a car just like that.

And it may be time to look at covering the great open void in the body.

Hershey bars now come in plastic wrappers instead of the old paper/foil. A light coat of spray adhesive on the back of the wrapper and wrap it around the car - leaves about an 7/8" uncovered at either end. It's cheaper than a derby car "wrap" finish and you get to celebrate with dessert.

The "brushed on" acryllic paints seemed to have a rough texture. "Brush on" has been their strong preference and the dry time for acryllic is short, so I haven't pushed for methodically sprayed and sanded finish.

The wrapper above addresses a lot of this, but here is a way to get a Scout-friendly 5 star finish - drill 1/4" holes in bottom of car, put 1/4" dowel rods into the holes approx 5" long and push into a flat styrofoam block. In a well ventilated area, brush on 6 to 10 very light coats (i.e. a lightly loaded brush) of Minwax Sanding Sealer with a small brush (1") using slow, long strokes - challenge the scout to make it from end-to-end of the car without lifting the brush or jiggling the line and they will get it instantly (each coat dries in less than 30 min). Optional - light sanding every three or four coats. It's fun, easy and you end up with a surface that's like a plastic model. Buy an aerosol spray trigger (example: http://www.lowes.com/pd_46078-1168-3490 ... Id=3078971" target="_blank) and attach to a can of Testors from the hobby store - it's expensive paint ($5 can - but it only takes one), but it's easy for a little scout to manuever and it sprays on like an air brush - I prefer laquer because it dries fastest, is most forgiving and has the hardest finish (watch for fumes). Here's the trick - the adult holds the styrofoam block while the scout paints. Little scouts can learn the side to side motion with a little practice, especially with the spray trigger on a little Testors can, but judging the distance and angle is hard - by holding the styrofoam block, the adult can easily control the distance and angle while the scout is sweeping side to side (just remember to take off your watch - lol). It's a true parent/scout team experience and once the two of you get into the groove, you can create highly professional finishes with little effort. (Note: make sure the can is lined up properly in the spray trigger and that the slide at the bottom of the trigger is in the open position, otherwise paint spray will splatter and drip).

I think that their axle polish can be improved, since they stopped at 2000 grit on the axles.

There are many finer grades of sandpaper of course, but a simple and scout friendly step beyond this is Doc Jobes alundum powder. Mix with water and apply to a 1/4"-1/2" square birch dowel. An advantage of the square dowel is that it polishes the backside of the axle head at the same time. I have tried various AO powders, but I am most impressed with Doc Jobes' "magic dust."

[Aron]

Yea the Ace of spades car was a Tiger.

If I can ask you a question Stan I was wondering. In the back room where my boys packs raced (Bear and Tigers) there were 3 tracks. 2 of them wooden and one of them metal. I was just curious about what your opinions are on the car setup? If you had a RR car or not and how it may run differently on the different tracks?

[Stan Pope]

Yea the Ace of spades car was a Tiger.

If I can ask you a question Stan I was wondering. In the back room where my boys packs raced (Bear and Tigers) there were 3 tracks. 2 of them wooden and one of them metal. I was just curious about what your opinions are on the car setup? If you had a RR car or not and how it may run differently on the different tracks?

My guys developed their cars on an aluminum Freedom track and, in prep for pack races on a Piantedosi wood track, adjusted the location of a trim weight during Test and Tune Night just before the pack race. I don't think that moved the trim weight ... just replaced the tape with glue so that it wouldn't come off during the races. No changes between pack and district races. I think that they did not adjust toe during Test and Tune Night to try to get more speed out of the car on the Pack's track.

Often aluminum tracks are smoother and require less toe-in to hold their line and allow more extreme weight distribution. Since Alex raced pretty much randomly on either the aluminum or wooden track during the Web II race, the preparation he had gone through was appropriate. For Andrew, where the Wolf tracks were both Piantedosi wooden tracks, the pack prep was appropriate, but he might have done better had we adjusted toe-in during Test and Tune. But we didn't know anything about the specific tracks that District races would use before showing up Saturday, so that kind of fine tuning was not done.

Yes, they were three-legged, rail guided cars!

[hwsjr]

That is a problem we face every year. Our pack runs on a 42' Best Track. The District race is rotated around to different Packs in the District. We never know what kind of Track we will face at the District until we walk in the door. We've won our Pack every year on the Best Track and finished first and a close second on the two years our District was on a Best Track. We've had two 4ths when the track at District was not a Best Track. In one of those years a car we beat by a few inches at the Pack on a Best Track beat us by almost the same magin at the District. So the setup for the particular track does seem to matter.

[Stan Pope]

That is a problem we face every year. Our pack runs on a 42' Best Track. The District race is rotated around to different Packs in the District. We never know what kind of Track we will face at the District until we walk in the door. We've won our Pack every year on the Best Track and finished first and a close second on the two years our District was on a Best Track. We've had two 4ths when the track at District was not a Best Track. In one of those years a car we beat by a few inches at the Pack on a Best Track beat us by almost the same magin at the District. So the setup for the particular track does seem to matter.

I would not recommend a pack in our area to buy a track with the profile, height, or length different from that shown in the Cub Scout Leader HowTO Book. The two profiles emphasize slightly different aspects of car geometry.

Best tracks are not inferior, just different ... different enough that "top end" competitiveness suffers.

By the same reasoning, I would not recommend that our district races be held on tracks with a profile, height, or length different from that shown in the Cub Scout Leader HowTO Book.

So, while I am sympathetic with packs that purchased a Best track (or any other brand with that profile), I feel that it was their choice to be "different" and they should accept the consequences. (Their "choice" may have come from lack of knowledge or from a desire to share the cost of the track with another organization, but it was still their choice.)

[hwsjr]

"Best tracks are not inferior, just different ... different enough that "top end" competitiveness suffers.

By the same reasoning, I would not recommend that our district races be held on tracks with a profile, height, or length different from that shown in the Cub Scout Leader HowTO Book.

So, while I am sympathetic with packs that purchased a Best track (or any other brand with that profile), I feel that it was their choice to be "different" and they should accept the consequences. (Their "choice" may have come from lack of knowledge or from a desire to share the cost of the track with another organization, but it was still their choice.)"

I'm not sure I understand. Why does "top end" competitiveness suffer on a Best Track? Also, in our area Packs that purchase a Best Track are not choosing to be "different". A majority of the Packs in our area have purchased a Best Track. If anything they are choosing to be in the majority of the Packs in our District.

[hwsjr]

You know that would make a good poll question. What kind of track does your Pack run on? It would be interesting to see with the variety of locations represented here. I assumed that the Best Track dominated in popularity because it does around here and in the racing leagues. Stan evidently assumed that the dimensions of the How To Guide dominated, because they do in his area. I wonder what dominates nationwide.

[Darin McGrew]

I'm not sure I understand. Why does "top end" competitiveness suffer on a Best Track?

It isn't that the top-end competition suffers on a Best Track. It's that the top-end competition suffers when the tracks used in qualifying races (i.e., the tracks for local derbies) differ significantly from the tracks used in the final races (i.e., the tracks for regional derbies). The qualifying races select finalists based on one set of characteristics, and then those finalists race in an environment that rewards a different set of characteristics.

[hwsjr]

I totally agree with that. I think that at least in part is handled by the fact that the top 4 in each Pack advance to the District in our District. I can't imagine a Pack in our District in which the 5th place car in the Pack would be the best car in the District even with the races on vastly different tracks. Our Packs are relatively small and the talent is not that deep. I think our Pack is the largest Pack in the District and we have only 80 cars running at the Pack level. We are also probably the deepest Pack in terms of good cars, but I can never remember us having a fifth car that would have stood a chance at placing at the District.

But, I totally agree that it would be much better and more fair if the Packs all competed on a track similar to the track they will compete on at the District level.

[Stan Pope]

Stan evidently assumed that the dimensions of the How To Guide dominated, because they do in his area.

No such assumption. Please recheck the quote. I spoke of the district in which I reside.

Darin got the rest explained okay. Thanks, Darin.

In other districts, Best track profiles may predominate. I suspect that they include fewer home-built tracks, as that design seems less amenable to home construction. Around here, a number of less well endowed packs still "roll their own" tracks. And a small few engage the volunteer skills of local cabinet makers and end up with outstanding tracks, such as one of the tracks at our district derby!

(Sorry gone this afternoon ... Dentist wanted another go at me! I survived, though.)