Graphite pads via water?
- GravityRacer
- Master Pine Head
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:39 pm
- Location: Simi Valley, CA
Re: Graphite pads via water?
I lube the locks on my cars with a "liquid graphite" lube called "Lock-Ease". Works great to avoid frozen locks on those freezing Southern California mornings...snort. Readily available in auto parts stores. Never thought to use it on my PWD cars. It has "mineral spirits and kerosene" in it, as well as propane for a propellant. I guess the kerosene tears it up for use in PWD, but come on, folks, it's still a "liquid lube". I realize what a problem a "reality injection" is for some sufferers, though.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
Last news update on this thread.
The District Activity Chair stepped down last month. She's been doing it for 3-5 years and needs time to raise her family.
Previous District Chair stepped back up. She asked her husband to chair the PWD. BTW, these were the two that had the 24 and 36 page Rule Books for PWD.
Previous PWD chair did volunteer, as did I. We were both turned down. We'll probably help at the event, but not as key decision makers.
The 2010 rules were slightly re-vamped, and they're now down to 3 pages long.
They've also added an 'Outlaw' division which allows oil, raised wheel, extended wheelbase but keeps the 5oz weight and all other usual dimensions and is still 3 pages long.
District car inspection questions get handled by a 3 person committee whose decisions are final.
I'm working with three local Packs with very simple rules, just 10 of them. I'm also putting on lots of workshops and opening my PWD workshop to any and all. Other experienced PWD Dads are doing the same.
Given the changes, I'm not overly optimistic for this years District races in March 2011. If anything interesting happens, I'll post it on a new thread.
The District Activity Chair stepped down last month. She's been doing it for 3-5 years and needs time to raise her family.
Previous District Chair stepped back up. She asked her husband to chair the PWD. BTW, these were the two that had the 24 and 36 page Rule Books for PWD.
Previous PWD chair did volunteer, as did I. We were both turned down. We'll probably help at the event, but not as key decision makers.
The 2010 rules were slightly re-vamped, and they're now down to 3 pages long.
They've also added an 'Outlaw' division which allows oil, raised wheel, extended wheelbase but keeps the 5oz weight and all other usual dimensions and is still 3 pages long.
District car inspection questions get handled by a 3 person committee whose decisions are final.
I'm working with three local Packs with very simple rules, just 10 of them. I'm also putting on lots of workshops and opening my PWD workshop to any and all. Other experienced PWD Dads are doing the same.
Given the changes, I'm not overly optimistic for this years District races in March 2011. If anything interesting happens, I'll post it on a new thread.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
Is dry moly film considered a liquid and therefore restricted from the typical district race? As I recall, the rules talk about "only dry lubricants can be used" is part of the rules. When I read that rule I tend to think they are addressing the use of oils. Dry moly film is in liquid form and then dries to a powdery form. Oils are a wet lubricant, not a dry lubricant. I'd value other people's thoughts on this.
- Darin McGrew
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:23 pm
- Location: Knoxville, TN
- Contact:
Re: Graphite pads via water?
You really need to ask the people who are enforcing the rules. You can get any number of answers here, but none of them really matter.purplespy wrote:Is dry moly film considered a liquid and therefore restricted from the typical district race? As I recall, the rules talk about "only dry lubricants can be used" is part of the rules. When I read that rule I tend to think they are addressing the use of oils. Dry moly film is in liquid form and then dries to a powdery form. Oils are a wet lubricant, not a dry lubricant. I'd value other people's thoughts on this.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
Current Talakto District rules state: "Only dry lubricants are allowed. Approved lubricants include (but are not limited to) graphite and Teflon."
So... anything that's dry by the time gets looked at by an inspector should pass. I picked up Coach's Secret Lube this year, folks will probably use it at District.
Last two District races, 2011 & 2012, did not have extremely picky inspectors so a moly film would pass. I expect all dry lubes to pass again this year.
So... anything that's dry by the time gets looked at by an inspector should pass. I picked up Coach's Secret Lube this year, folks will probably use it at District.
Last two District races, 2011 & 2012, did not have extremely picky inspectors so a moly film would pass. I expect all dry lubes to pass again this year.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
I would consider properly applied krytox to be just as much of a dry lube as Coach's Secret Lube...rpcarpe wrote: I picked up Coach's Secret Lube this year, folks will probably use it at District.
- FatSebastian
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
- Location: Boogerton, PA
Re: Graphite pads via water?
Thanks for the update. IIRC, a primary focus of this topic was whether clumped graphite inside the wheel bore qualified as a "bushing" and was therefore illegal.rpcarpe wrote:I expect all dry lubes to pass again this year.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
I don't see how it matters one bit HOW the lube is applied, as long as it's dry when you race it. Graphite is a dry lube, right? So if I put water or alcohol or whatever in it, then dry it out, it's still the same graphite that it was before, right? So that's a dry lube, by any stretch of the rule, IMO.purplespy wrote:Is dry moly film considered a liquid and therefore restricted from the typical district race? As I recall, the rules talk about "only dry lubricants can be used" is part of the rules. When I read that rule I tend to think they are addressing the use of oils. Dry moly film is in liquid form and then dries to a powdery form. Oils are a wet lubricant, not a dry lubricant. I'd value other people's thoughts on this.
Oil isn't considered "dry", because it's not. It's a liquid. If you put graphite in some oily substance and left THAT on the axles/wheels, then yeah, that'd be a liquid lube.
The only argument I can see that the anti-liquid lube folks might have that makes sense is the "graphite bushing' deal.....they could say that you are making the graphite into something that you couldn't normally get it to do without the lube. But to ME, the bottom line would always be, "is it dry when you race it?" Don't see how you can say someone is using a liquid lube if no liquid is present.
But as stated previously, they only opinions that REALLY matter on this are the ones of the rule makers and inspectors wherever you race.
Re: Graphite pads via water?
As Darin said: You can get any answer here, but contact your Rules or Derby Chair and ask for guidance. Some folks are merely trying to run a nice event and may not understand the subtleties of lubrication.
Pertaining to the original question posed in the thread, graphite 'pads' via water... seemed sufficient for disqualification at our 2010 District race. As far as I know, it has not been attempted since.
Pertaining to the original question posed in the thread, graphite 'pads' via water... seemed sufficient for disqualification at our 2010 District race. As far as I know, it has not been attempted since.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.