Retired!!

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asatxj
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Retired!!

Post by asatxj »

Well it's finally happened. The people who were unwilling to come to workshops, ask questions, or search places like this have made enough noise in our Club that all of we fast people are retiring. It's a bummer that they didn't want to try to get fast. Rather they convinced us to retire. We usually do workshops and assist in building a third of the cars that race. Now we will build with our kids only and let them enjoy the fun of building cars that may finish. The sad thing is we did a TON to help everyone get better and our racing was excellent. A slow car in our club was as good as the fastest car at a race we ran in a neighboring church. Oh well, whatever makes the parents happy I guess. Sad :idk:
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Re: Retired!!

Post by FatSebastian »

:shake: That's too bad. Might you be able to elaborate a little more as to circumstances that led to the retirement of the workshops (e.g., what was said or done to convince you to retire)? Seems like there's a lesson learnt for some of us in all this...
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Re: Retired!!

Post by rpcarpe »

Humph!
I think you'll see the pendulum swing the other way. After 1-3 years of getting beat, they'll want all the 'secrets' and you'll be back in business with workshops and people calling you at 11pm the day before the race.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
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asatxj
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Re: Retired!!

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Basically a couple of us put in the time and effort to get fast. Despite helping 1/3 of the racers the "paint the block and stick the wheels on" crowd got grumpy and complain (never to us though) because they weren't competitive even though they were all finishing (weren't before) and qualifying for Regionals. The Workshops were under attended and the people who did failed to follow through with things like lube (pledge is cheap and fast enough for most racing) and weighting. Then they got grumpy because there were 12 cars that were faster than they were (usually 35 cars at our race). I gave people a manual I wrote to help them get faster too. We are going to take a year off from workshops and let them enjoy the "hope I finish" racing and then see what happens. The moral of the story is don't dominate the competition year in and year out! Don't know how some people like Stan and Darren get away with it! :rofl: :lol: Maybe take a year off from speed now and then and do a design car that's cool but is not at all fast.

Can't tell you how many times I ran to the janitor's closet and got a can of pledge to help a kid when they used "Art Van furniture polish" because all furniture polish is the same. BTW Pledge doesn't get along with waterbased paint very well!! :O
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Re: Retired!!

Post by FatSebastian »

asatxj wrote:the "paint the block and stick the wheels on" crowd got grumpy and complain (never to us though) because they weren't competitive...
Thanks for the follow up, asatxj. The "made enough noise" statement is clearer to me now. Since this crowd didn't complain to you directly, were you asked by group leadership to suspend future workshops or did you just graciously step down so others wouldn't have to suffer hearing those complaints?
asatxj wrote:I gave people a manual I wrote to help them get faster too.
How generous! Would love to see your tips manual (i.e., the information they were ignoring).
asatxj wrote:BTW Pledge doesn't get along with waterbased paint very well!
Never heard that - good to know.
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Re: Retired!!

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sebastian-
I am in charge of the ministry, for some reason they chose not to talk to me and mentioned it to the Pastor who oversees our childrens ministries. He knows me very well and disagreed with them but did tell me anyway so I took retirement so I wouldn't be an impairment to their fun. My "team" will still set up the track and run the race. The two fast "teams" haven't told anyone yet but we will next January when people ask. I have contemplated scheduling "appointments" at DFR (our team name) so kids could come and learn but I'm not sure if that's going to happen, someone may think it's "not fair." Kind of reminds me of IROC races back in the day, same cars see who gets luckiest.

Yep, I can send a copy of the guide, have to do that via email. I doubt you'll find a lot of "new stuff" as it's written for newbies or people with limited tools. Send me a pm
Hope I don't sound grumpy, I'm saddened that the "not fair" people don't want to learn and develop skills. I'm a teacher by profession and would love to show them. I lose some fun they lose knowledge, everybody slows down. Bummer for all! We will see if any one "starts asking" as RPCARPE says. I hope so!!!
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Re: Retired!!

Post by doct1010 »

asatxj,
Please forgive me for appearing dense, what exactly was the complaint? Same folks always winning?
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Re: Retired!!

Post by sporty »

Been there with another pack before.

We are fast and we would put on workshops, but a few at the pack in position of power, seemed to be against fast cars and people who knew more than they did.

So the drama pretty much forced me out of helping that pack out anymore.

It's really sad, because in a way it tore the pack in 1/2. with those wanting the help and those with the controling power to make it a nightmare for anyone who took a stand or agreement that the help we gave was a plus.

I did manuals, tip quides, supplied tools and templates and sandpaper and all kinds of goodies.

all you can do is roll with the tide and wait for more open minded and less controling and anti pinewood derby people to come on board.

Naturally this takes 3 to 5 years, depending on who the people are that have the issues.


I didn't take it personally, As i see these same few leaders take control and play the same behavior and games in all other areas in that pack.

Some people thrive control and power and there own thinking outways the open mindedness for the kids.

this happens alot in scouts.

This will be very controversial, but often in some locations and areas. you end up with leaders and helpers that may not have been main stream and mentally balanced individuals.

They tend to lean towards environments like these, where they can thrive, Through power. You tend in some towns and areas, see the non average family and philosphy environment.

Scouting use to be more main stream, but I often wonder through the changes over the years, that is has developed into a backwards process at the local level.

now many packs and folks are not like this, but its out there and i'd say more so than ever.


there always seem to be another pack just around the corner willing to not only welcome the help and knowledge but also inbrace it.

In almost 10 years, which is small to some who have been around scouting many more years. It's like a roller coaster ride.

Each new leader or group coming and going every 3 to 5 years, sometimes more than that.

Often they bring with them there own core click of friends and people who also tend to side with them and be inagreement and get on the committee's also.

The down fall, is it drives out many more solid minded helpers and families and leaves a less than desirable core group of people.

all you can do is roll with the tide. it will go out or come in soon enough.

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Re: Retired!!

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doct1010 wrote:asatxj,
Please forgive me for appearing dense, what exactly was the complaint? Same folks always winning?
Exactly that. I and a couple of other guys have become rather fast and "they" think it's all about us winning and so it's no fun for the rest of them. :? remember, between the two fast teams we account for 13 of 35 cars!! only about 4 are "our teams" the rest are kids we help
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Re: Retired!!

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Sorry, but I don't see the problem. DO YOUR BEST is the Cub Scout motto, and you've generously taken that a step further by offering to help others do their best.

This complainer (we all know it's probably just one mom or two) needs to be told to that Pinewood Derby is a race, and races have winners & losers. Those who do their best will not only do better in PWD, but also in life... and isn't that why we have a motto?

Namby-pamby, politically correct complainers are the reason we don't keep score in some little leagues anymore. It's all about self-esteem to these folks. Ever seen a kid's face when he gets a "participation trophy?" He knows it's garbage. He knows the world doesn't operate that way. Who are they trying to fool?

And the solution won't solve the problem. Retiring from doing workshops won't mean the complainers will win. You & the other team will still win... just by a bigger margin.
And well you should.
Don't take a year off to build a design car. It's a race, and you're doing your best.
You'll teach your kid the wrong lesson if you let Mrs. Kravitz push you around.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by doct1010 »

mizefish wrote:....This complainer (we all know it's probably just one mom or two) needs to be told to that Pinewood Derby is a race, and races have winners & losers. Those who do their best will not only do better in PWD, but also in life... and isn't that why we have a motto?

Namby-pamby, politically correct complainers are the reason we don't keep score in some little leagues anymore. It's all about self-esteem to these folks. Ever seen a kid's face when he gets a "participation trophy?" He knows it's garbage. He knows the world doesn't operate that way. Who are they trying to fool?

And the solution won't solve the problem. Retiring from doing workshops won't mean the complainers will win. You & the other team will still win... just by a bigger margin.
And well you should.
Don't take a year off to build a design car. It's a race, and you're doing your best.
You'll teach your kid the wrong lesson if you let Mrs. Kravitz push you around.
Whoa Nelly! We are talking about a PWD race for kids, are we not?

Over the years I have encountered two extremist positions in PWD racing, the ultra competitive win at all cost and the laze fare slap the wheels on at the event and hope. I don't believe either has a comfortable place in PWD. It's nice to win, however is that the sole purpose and intent of PWD racing? I think not.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by FatSebastian »

mizefish wrote:Sorry, but I don't see the problem. DO YOUR BEST is the Cub Scout motto...
doct1010 wrote:We are talking about a PWD race for kids, are we not?
Agree with Doc, although to be clearer, asatxj seems to be talking about a children's ministry being conducted by a church (not a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby per se), so the Cub Scout motto doesn't necessarily motivate in this case. I suspect scriptural principles may be the motive (e.g., Christian example), and trust that asatxj thinks he is doing what is best considering the attitude of some within his local congregation.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by asatxj »

Agree with Doc, although to be clearer, asatxj seems to be talking about a children's ministry being conducted by a church (not a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby per se), so the Cub Scout motto doesn't necessarily motivate in this case. I suspect scriptural principles may be the motive (e.g., Christian example), and trust that asatxj thinks he is doing what is best considering the attitude of some within his local congregation.
Yep what sebastian said. This is for AWANA and I don't want any resentment going on. My daughter will still have a car but none of the adults will be racing. What's funny is I've only been overall fastest 2x !! Just they have been 2 of the last 3 races. It's all about kids and if we choose to have an "old kids" race after we may but we've agreed that we won't enter the general race (we use GPRM and everyone races everyone.). That way the kids can enjoy without the rest of us.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by *5 J's* »

mizefish wrote:Sorry, but I don't see the problem. DO YOUR BEST is the Cub Scout motto, and you've generously taken that a step further by offering to help others do their best.

This complainer (we all know it's probably just one mom or two) needs to be told to that Pinewood Derby is a race, and races have winners & losers. Those who do their best will not only do better in PWD, but also in life... and isn't that why we have a motto?

Namby-pamby, politically correct complainers are the reason we don't keep score in some little leagues anymore. It's all about self-esteem to these folks. Ever seen a kid's face when he gets a "participation trophy?" He knows it's garbage. He knows the world doesn't operate that way. Who are they trying to fool?

And the solution won't solve the problem. Retiring from doing workshops won't mean the complainers will win. You & the other team will still win... just by a bigger margin.
And well you should.
Don't take a year off to build a design car. It's a race, and you're doing your best.
You'll teach your kid the wrong lesson if you let Mrs. Kravitz push you around.
I think I agree with mizefish to an extent. This year I wanted to present all scouts and award (a printed certificate for each scout with creative categories). Our commitee chair expained why she thought it was important for the boys to learn there are winners and there are those that do not win. We ended up with a compromise with 40% of the scouts being awarded.

Point is - participants do need to learn this life lesson - and at the same time learn good sportsmanship whether they win or lose. If every participant was to win - what would they have to strive for?
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Re: Retired!!

Post by mizefish »

Doct,
I don't think DO YOUR BEST is an extremist position.

We're all on this site because we like to make fast cars. Do we always win? Nope. But if you're like me, you have a blast making little wooden cars with your kids, learning speed secrets & seeing car photos here, and teaching little lessons about physics and sportsmanship to our next generation of Americans.

I'm saddened, angered even, when I see guys like me who care about holsome traditions like PWD, get criticized or muzzled or even shut down by those who don't try as hard.
I see it as a microcosm of the erosion of the American Spirit.

So yeah, it's just a Pinewood Derby race we're talking about. And for some of us it's more.

I feel empathy for asatxj, and my post was meant to encourage him not to quit or feel downtrodden. And to say thank you for all the hours of help he has already volunteered.

I'm a new member here, though I've lurked for several months. For whatever reason PWD has gotten into my blood, and I'm way more into it than I probably should be... at least that's what my wife & other Den Leaders say. Point is, I know I'm not one of the core group of personalities on this site, but I won't stand there quietly and be labled an extremist by anyone. You don't know me well enough for that yet.
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