Retired!!

General discussions for car and semi-truck racers.
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FatSebastian
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Re: Retired!!

Post by FatSebastian »

mizefish wrote:We're all on this site because we like to make fast cars.
This is probably true for the majority, including myself. However, some people are just looking for information on how to manage a race; some are interested in exquisite design ("looks"), etc. For many years our family didn't care to make a fast car; we just wanted to avoid making a very slow car (we were simply interested in avoiding crucial mistakes to avoid the embarrassment of coming in last). The great thing about DT is that there's something for every interest level.
mizefish wrote:I'm saddened, angered even, when I see guys like me who care about holsome traditions like PWD, get criticized or muzzled or even shut down by those who don't try as hard.
I think your sentiment is the majority one, mizefish. At the same time, whenever there's something about woodcar racing that truly "angers" me, I like to step back from it - being angry is no fun plus it makes it harder to "do your best". It seems asatxj feels it is time to momentarily step aside to avoid ruffling the feathers of those he is trying to help, and perhaps even his own as well.
mizefish wrote:I know I'm not one of the core group of personalities on this site, but I won't stand there quietly and be labled an extremist by anyone.
The comments from your wife & other Den Leaders likely apply to most contributors on DT. It could be argued that anyone who spends very much time discussing how to make little toy cars go roll faster is a bit extreme; if so, welcome to our club of extremists. :lol: Or perhaps "enthusiasts" is a better word. ;)
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Stan Pope
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Re: Retired!!

Post by Stan Pope »

FatSebastian wrote:...if so, welcome to our club of extremists. :lol: Or perhaps "enthusiasts" is a better word. ;)
Yes, much better. Thank you. :)
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asatxj
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Re: Retired!!

Post by asatxj »

I'm not sure I'm an "extremist" in the classic definition, however my wife thinks I'm nuts for spending so much time learning how to make fast cars. On the other hand, I am spending time with my kids and investing in the lives of many others. As some one with a passion for ministering to children it's an excellent opportunity to minister in a way that is educational and fun.
I am not disheartened, rather my goal is to build an excellent car for myself that will run at the Regional race and perform well there. I finished 2nd this year by about .04 in the finals despite not relubing or updating it after our club race. I have a goal for next season and either my daughter or I will accomplish it. One of us needs to turn in the first ever time sub 2.540. :mrgreen:
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doct1010
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Re: Retired!!

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mizefish wrote:Doct,
I don't think DO YOUR BEST is an extremist position.
Nor do I. However the tone and tenor of your post, imo went beyond simply "do your best." I took umbrage with the following and felt it too harsh and crossed the line:
This complainer (we all know it's probably just one mom or two) needs to be told to that Pinewood Derby is a race, and races have winners & losers. Those who do their best will not only do better in PWD, but also in life... and isn't that why we have a motto?

Namby-pamby, politically correct complainers are the reason we don't keep score in some little leagues anymore. It's all about self-esteem to these folks. Ever seen a kid's face when he gets a "participation trophy?" He knows it's garbage. He knows the world doesn't operate that way. Who are they trying to fool?
Gross generalizations that I find to be inaccurate and offensive. You may feel this way, but please do not include me in your collective "we".
We're all on this site because we like to make fast cars. Do we always win? Nope. But if you're like me, you have a blast making little wooden cars with your kids, learning speed secrets & seeing car photos here, and teaching little lessons about physics and sportsmanship to our next generation of Americans.
Agree. More in keeping with what I interpret "do your best" and PWD to mean. A joint venture intended to be a learning experience.
I'm saddened, angered even, when I see guys like me who care about holsome traditions like PWD, get criticized or muzzled or even shut down by those who don't try as hard.
I see it as a microcosm of the erosion of the American Spirit.
I share your anger and dismay, but rather than denigrate those less fortunate for not trying, I chose to lend a hand as did asatxj. Rising tide raises all boats. Erosion of American spirit I think we can find far more examples outside scouting and PWD far more guilty.
I feel empathy for asatxj, and my post was meant to encourage him not to quit or feel downtrodden. And to say thank you for all the hours of help he has already volunteered.
No argument here. I applaud his efforts.
... For whatever reason PWD has gotten into my blood, and I'm way more into it than I probably should be... at least that's what my wife & other Den Leaders say. Point is, I know I'm not one of the core group of personalities on this site, but I won't stand there quietly and be labled an extremist by anyone. You don't know me well enough for that yet.
Like many of us who cross over to obssesion.
I don't believe I labeled you an extremist, only pointed out extremist positions I've encountered neither of whoch I find helpful or in keeping with the intent of PWD.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by mizefish »

F.S.,
Thank you for the welcome, and for the softer rhetoric of "enthusiast."

Ran it by my wife, however, and she's not letting me skate with anything less than "fanatic," which is the long version of "fan," so I'm proud to be a PWD fan!
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Re: Retired!!

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Gross generalizations that I find to be inaccurate and offensive.
but rather than denigrate those less fortunate for not trying,
Who said anything about the less fortunate?
I denigrated the whiney and the lazy... the ones who made asatxj retire from holding his workshops.
Talk about inaccurate gross generalizations.

At the end of the day, what we have here is a classic Atlas Shrugged situation. A talented person (asatxj) shared with the world, and exhibited excellence. The looters complained. The talented person chose to no longer share with them. Motivated individuals will probably still seek him out. He'll continue teaching, and excelling. Everybody's happy.

Doct, I'm guessing we come from different ends of the political spectrum, so I'm done arguing, and, to borrow a phrase I'm sure you'll recognize, I'll give you the last word. ;)
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Re: Retired!!

Post by mizefish »

Asatxj,
Did you get a deer this season?
Just noticed that you're a bowhunter.
Big admirer of the patience you must command.
And of the time you get to spend in the woods.
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asatxj
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Re: Retired!!

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mizefish wrote:Asatxj,
Did you get a deer this season?
Just noticed that you're a bowhunter.
Big admirer of the patience you must command.
And of the time you get to spend in the woods.
This was the hardest season EVER for my team! We got one deer among 3 of us. If you saw a deer in one place one time that was it. the critters were on high alert all the time. BTW teaching Alternative Education takes far more patience than hunting! That's fun! Thanks though! We are after excellence in every thing we do. Anyone can be average!! :idk:
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Re: Retired!!

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mizefish wrote: Doct, I'm guessing we come from different ends of the political spectrum, so I'm done arguing, and, to borrow a phrase I'm sure you'll recognize, I'll give you the last word. ;)

I didn't think we were arguing, only debating.

I believe you will find an eclectic base here on DT. Many differing perspectives that tend to coalesce around the common good and goals of PW racing. Yes, I choose to help those that may be unable to help themselves, I consider it a moral and ethical responsibilty. One I assumed was in keeping with Asatxj Christian ministry. What you consider lazy I view as requiring proper motivation. Whiners and complainers, I listen and try to understand, although over the years my patience has worn thin and skin not as thick as it once was. I realize you can't help or reach all, if you don't attend our workshops or meet us halfway little more we can do. I offer tools, knowledge, opportunity and time the rest is up to them.

I found it interesting you singled out the "Mom" as the complainer. In my experience it is almost exclusively the Dad.
Last edited by doct1010 on Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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asatxj
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Re: Retired!!

Post by asatxj »

It's a Mom this time :mrgreen:
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FatSebastian
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Re: Retired!!

Post by FatSebastian »

doct1010 wrote:Why am I not surprized your view of the world is informed by FOX network.
Well, Fox News Network is the most highly rated cable news in the USA (usually by a huge margin, and especially during prime time). ;)
doct1010 wrote:I found it interesting you singled out the "Mom" as the complainer. In my experience it is almost exclusively the Dad.
I wonder if you can both be right. My own impression has been that there are far more Dads who are able find fault (possibly because there are just more Dads involved), but Moms are often more vocal about the faults they observe. (Can I say that?? :paperbag: )
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Re: Retired!!

Post by gpraceman »

Hey guys, debating is one thing, but personal jabs is quite another. Let's tone it down.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by doct1010 »

Randy,
Sorry, consider it done.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by bad_karma_2805a1 »

I am sure that I am going to say something that has all ready been said. But being in charge of no less then 3 derbies this year let me give you a little advice. DO NOT LET THE GRUMBLERS GET TO YOU! If you enjoy what you are doing, then keep doing it. I have heard every possible excuse, complaint, grumble, and moan there is to hear. In the long run I just do what is best for the Scouts and forget the rest.

I love PWD just like the rest of the pine heads on here, so please don't retire. Passing on the knowledge you have it worth so much more then the issues a few Grumblers have.
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Re: Retired!!

Post by asatxj »

Karma---
I'm not "retiring" per sec, rather I'm not racing in our club race. I'll test my car afterward to make sure I'm fast enough and then I'll go straight to the regional race. We also run a couple races for scouts and other churches. I will likely run my car in those just for fun. I'm not going to do any building for other folks for a year or so. That will allow them to learn on their own for a bit.
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