Should I re-lube at districts?
- Curse You Red Baron!
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Should I re-lube at districts?
Question on Lube, here is the setup. My sons have a Pack Champion and an Open Class Champion both going to districts. They are currently impounded (the cars, not the boys!). The race was Jan 22nd, the district Race will not happen until late March. The Pack Champion ran 10 times and seemed to get faster in the last 4 or 5 runs. The Open Class ran only 4 times. Don't think it matters, but both are straight runners.
We will have an opportunity to work with the cars in the warehouse where the district race will be run, for an hour or two.
I am wondering if it makes sense to just spin the wheels, and as long as they seem in good order, not re-lubing them (dry lube, I use graphite/moly blend). If they were just getting broken in, re-lubing might slow me down ?
Or, would you relube and spin the wheels plenty, trying to get it sufficiently broken in? Given the long time frame, and that the cars are out of our hands all that time, I'm leaning towards lubing. If it were a week between races, i think I'd be leaning the other way. Curious what the group wisdom might be.
We will have an opportunity to work with the cars in the warehouse where the district race will be run, for an hour or two.
I am wondering if it makes sense to just spin the wheels, and as long as they seem in good order, not re-lubing them (dry lube, I use graphite/moly blend). If they were just getting broken in, re-lubing might slow me down ?
Or, would you relube and spin the wheels plenty, trying to get it sufficiently broken in? Given the long time frame, and that the cars are out of our hands all that time, I'm leaning towards lubing. If it were a week between races, i think I'd be leaning the other way. Curious what the group wisdom might be.
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Absolutely, I would re-lube.
The reason the cars get faster is the lube gets warm and the wheels spin better. After all this warming and workout the wheels will need to be re-lubed. And plenty of wheel spinning couldn't hurt.
Good luck.
The reason the cars get faster is the lube gets warm and the wheels spin better. After all this warming and workout the wheels will need to be re-lubed. And plenty of wheel spinning couldn't hurt.
Good luck.
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
are pack race was already. lubed and the pack holds onto them for council race in April. About 3 months. we do not get to re-lube.
I can tell you as we have won council several times, that we do good, compared against even the packs that have races just before council.
However, you always want to relube before a race if you can. do like you usually do.
Spinning the wheels some, but do not go hog wild on it. or you will just have to relube.
Sporty
I can tell you as we have won council several times, that we do good, compared against even the packs that have races just before council.
However, you always want to relube before a race if you can. do like you usually do.
Spinning the wheels some, but do not go hog wild on it. or you will just have to relube.
Sporty
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
I lubed just before the pack race (dry) and only spun the wheels a little so all the lube didn't just fall off. Results were 1st and 2nd in overall pack.
- Curse You Red Baron!
- Master Pine Head
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Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Thanks for the input, will re-lube. I didn't think about the 'break in' being due to heat in the bore warming the lube? Does graphite perform better at higher temperatures? Or maybe it's a combination of factors? I'll have to do a few internet searches! Appreciate the input, thanks all!
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
I'm not sure about the temp thing with graphite. With my experience which is not as much as many on here, I would say the graphite tends to wear off after alot of runs and the car tends to slow some.
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
we did a bunch of experiments a couple of years ago. Thought I had posted them on here, but can't find them. We found that at around 15 runs, the graphite definately started to slow down.
3 Cub Dad
3 Cub Dad
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Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
You can't be slowed down by relubing. The graphite goes it's merry way after several heats. I have a track in my basement, and after several runs and break in, relubing becomes essential. By the 10th run I see the immediate difference in performance.
"I wanted to devise a wholesome, constructive activity that would foster a closer father-son relationship and
promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition."
Don Murphy, 1953 (Founder of PWD)
promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition."
Don Murphy, 1953 (Founder of PWD)
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Most definitely relube your car.
John
John
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Re-lube with one caveat, be sure it's well broken in, otherwise that first run or two may be a disaster. Fresh graphite needs to be broken down to perform.
- Curse You Red Baron!
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Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Thanks everyone for the input, I felt a little silly asking, but I think we'll need every advantage at districts, our margin of victory at the pack was slim! I'll re-lube and break in.
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
What's the method you guys use to relube without throwing alignment off by removing the axles? Or do you just count on doing that?
Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
I like the paintbrush w/ graphite into the wheel bore method so as to NOT throw off alignment.
Used it several times this last weekend, all the cars' times improved.
Used it several times this last weekend, all the cars' times improved.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
- Curse You Red Baron!
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Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Rpcarpe, so you use a little paint brush? do you just dump a little graphite on the wheel surface and sweep it in then?
I turn the car upside down and lightly puff graphite into the hub and just above it in the slot, spin the wheels, and let the graphite drop in to the hub. I then turn it over and puff more graphite into the small well that usually snuggles against the nail head, but is now exposed because the wheel is nestled against the car. I grind the graphite into the nail head and wheel well, and plan to re-"burnish" each wheel. Then I'll spin the wheels a few times until I'm getting about 30 seconds of spin... at that point I'm satisfied the wheels are spinning properly and should be ready. This test is not about spinning 27 vs 30 vs 33 seconds... all those are good... it's to make sure you don't have something gumming up your wheel, and slowing you to 15-20 seconds. I know some people report spin times of 40 seconds or more, but my oldest's car last year went to district with spin times of about 25 seconds (installed) and took 5th out of 70+ winners... longer spin time doesn't necessarily mean higher performance under derby conditions. Also, I find spin time decreases by 3-5 seconds or so once the wheel and axle are installed on the car... I attribute that to the wood being a lot less forgiving as a shock absorber than my two fingers.
I hadn't even considered removing axles, since alignment can be so touchy, I admit to being a little intimidated by the thought of trying to mess with success in the short time I have available before the districts.
I turn the car upside down and lightly puff graphite into the hub and just above it in the slot, spin the wheels, and let the graphite drop in to the hub. I then turn it over and puff more graphite into the small well that usually snuggles against the nail head, but is now exposed because the wheel is nestled against the car. I grind the graphite into the nail head and wheel well, and plan to re-"burnish" each wheel. Then I'll spin the wheels a few times until I'm getting about 30 seconds of spin... at that point I'm satisfied the wheels are spinning properly and should be ready. This test is not about spinning 27 vs 30 vs 33 seconds... all those are good... it's to make sure you don't have something gumming up your wheel, and slowing you to 15-20 seconds. I know some people report spin times of 40 seconds or more, but my oldest's car last year went to district with spin times of about 25 seconds (installed) and took 5th out of 70+ winners... longer spin time doesn't necessarily mean higher performance under derby conditions. Also, I find spin time decreases by 3-5 seconds or so once the wheel and axle are installed on the car... I attribute that to the wood being a lot less forgiving as a shock absorber than my two fingers.
I hadn't even considered removing axles, since alignment can be so touchy, I admit to being a little intimidated by the thought of trying to mess with success in the short time I have available before the districts.
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Re: Should I re-lube at districts?
Typically one dips the bristles of a cheap watercolor paint brush in graphite powder as if it were paint. See David Meade's book, p. 86 for an illustration.Curse You Red Baron! wrote:do you just dump a little graphite on the wheel surface and sweep it in then?
As discussed here, finger spin testing is affected by the mass moment of inertia of the wheel. Reported times especially vary depending on whether one is using pre- or post-2009 BSA wheels, for example. I would suppose that "spin times of 40 seconds or more" refer to older, heavier wheels...Curse You Red Baron! wrote:I know some people report spin times of 40 seconds or more, but my oldest's car last year went to district with spin times of about 25 seconds (installed) and took 5th out of 70+ winners... longer spin time doesn't necessarily mean higher performance under derby conditions.