Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

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j.m.
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Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by j.m. »

:burningmad: :burningmad: Ok, Here's the deal. Our districts were today. We showed up last night to register early, and MAKE SURE THE CAR WAS FINE!!! That way we had overnight to adjust anything that didn't fly during inspection. It was our first district, and our pack race isn't as critical on inspection. So last night, we had trouble with inspection because the car has staggared wheels, and the plastic gauge tool thinggy didn't fit right. Even though the wheel base was within spech, the gauge didn't allow for the staggared wheels. So they measured it all up,, and decided it was good. Next, it didn't fit in the box that use to check overall width, but the other plastic gauge thinggy measuer it out to be just fine. So that was a big ordeal. Got it registered, and it got impounded for the night. Now we show up for race today, and when the starter put the car on the starting gate, the front nose whent passed the pin, because the pin was MUCH LOWER than the pin on our pack track. I f you seen the car in pictures thread, you will know what I am talking about (arrow car). So the starter just decided to run the car backwards... That's right, "BACKWARDS". Now I didn't catch it, cause we were too far back in the seats to see, and I was trying to take pictures with a camera, and it didn't show, and I really missed it because of the camera. They ran it like that for the second race, but my son and I were over in an other area when they ran it, so I didn't catch it there either. It wasn't till the last race, when I wanted to take a close up of it on the track that I saw they were starting it backwards. I said the the guy, he was running it backwards, and he told me that it didn't fit the pin. Now they never told us that there was an issue with the pin, they just decided on their own to run it backwards. Never gave us a fair chance to correct the car. Even after telling them it was wrong, they still ran the third race backwards. wouldn't let me correct it. Then when race was done, I fixed what was needed in 2 minutes, and ran it down the track, and it endded up running the 3rd fastest time all day. When they had a tie breaker for the 1st place finish, those cars ran 2.399, and 2.398. Our car ran 2 runs at 2.388, 2.387. We probably would have won the whole thing, but wasn't given the chance, and they wouldn't let us run 3 runs and use those times and manually ebter them in the data. They just said sorry, we made a mistake, and better luck next year. No one would help, and no gave a [junk], as the race was done, and didn't want to deal with it. I am upset that an organization as this has acted in the way they did when they realized they screwed up, and handled a car that didn't work like that. They are supposed to get the car owner and bring it to there attention, not just decide on thier own to run it backwards. It was a rail rider too, so in the end, my son finished 50th instead of top 5.
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FatSebastian
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by FatSebastian »

j.m. wrote:If you seen the car in pictures thread, you will know what I am talking about (arrow car).
I believe this is the thread and the car:

Image
j.m. wrote:Then when race was done, I fixed what was needed in 2 minutes
What did you do to "fix" it?
j.m. wrote:They are supposed to get the car owner and bring it to there attention, not just decide on thier own to run it backwards.
Unfortunately it is not unheard of for cars that cannot be legally staged to be run backwards. What do your district rules say?
j.m.
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by j.m. »

Rules give a max height of 6", must not come to a point in the front-must have at least a 1/4" flat in front. The car was cut out of the original pine block, so the the height of the nose piece is the where the height of the pine block would be if it were never cut. The problem arose because the starting pin on the wooden track was 1" lower than the starting pin on out pack's aluminum best track. I fixed it by taking a razor knife and shaving the wood back to where the point of the arrow sits, making a flat spot lower on the car. It took me litteraly 2 1/2 minutes to correct it. Rules also say if there is a problem, the team has time to repair or correct. If a car falls off the track during a race, he has 10 min. to fix to best abillities. Even after I brought it up that it was wrong, the starter just over at the head of council, and they both just shrugged their shoulders, and didn't even let me fix it for the 3rd race. Just told me sorry, and too bad, nothing they could do. We asked for 3 runs running forward, and manually enter the data into the standings, and they didn't want to do it. Every possible "FAIR" option was turned down, as they just didn't want to be bothered with it. My son is pretty upset with how BSA is handeling it as it is even obvious to him they don't care about making things right and fair.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by Stan Pope »

j.m. wrote: ...
My son is pretty upset with how BSA is handeling it as it is even obvious to him they don't care about making things right and fair.
I don't agree with the way your son's situation was handled, but I think that I can understand the causes for some of it. Regardless, impress on your son that it came about because the volunteers responsible for the several aspects of the race were not sufficiently knowledgable to handle exceptional conditions well. And volunteers are hard enough to get that sometimes their training and knowledge level is less than optimum. Their failures do not reflect BSA values and goals.

For instance, the inspection was not geared to inspect the car relative to actual track conditions. If they were, the 1" pin situation would have been recognized during inspection and the problem would have been dealt with while the solution was still well within their "normal". The rules often don't include specification for car nose height. Rules, inspection and track operations were not well coordinated, which is the responsibility of the event chairman. So, he/she gets marked down too.

Had the rules specified a minimum nose height, and the track start pin was too short, then track operations would get a big mark down. It appears that this was not the case.

Failure to follow the rules for conduct of the races is not excusable if notice was given in a timely manner. That is questionable in this case, but the reasons for the delay in notice was understandable. Each of the owner/drivers should have been in a position to assure that their car was run properly. It sounds as though event organization made this difficult. (Maybe this is another good reason for the boys to be more tightly integrated in the actual race, up to and including staging their own cars at the starting line instead of being treated as spectators ... but that is a different battle.)

The part that I don't understand in their reaction is their inability to cope with the issue and find a resolution after the heat of the action had died down. If the event made an error and it was reasonably correctable, then it should be corrected. For instance, if a scoring error was not recognized until after the results are announced and trophies awarded, the awards must stand. But, the event should also correct the error and issue additional trophies to match the "corrected results." Been there, done that!

One last thing that a relatively inexperienced event chairman (and most of them are inexperienced) should do: recruit an "old hand" who has no operational responsibility except to be a advisor for the chairman to help keep the chairman from "seizing up" ... which is what sounds like happened in this case.

BTW, I disagree with the "must stage behind the starting pin" rule, too, but I haven't convinced my own folks to toss it out. Folks think that it gives the car an unfair head start. To prove the point I asked my son-in-law to run Andrew's car three ways and report back the times.
Way 1. stage the car with the nose against the starting pin. (normal)
Way 2. stage the car with the starting pin in the car's central void. (about a 4.5" head start which actually shortened the track distance the car must run by 4.4")
Way 3. stage the car with a toothpick (lengthwise) between the the starting pin and the nose of the car. (give others a 2" head start)

He reported back that "Way 3" had the best time hands down, followed by Way 1" with "Way 2" (the "unfair" head start) with the slowest time. Enterprising folks might make a few $ using this "proposition," (out of sight of the boys, please.) It ranks up there with the "Same birthdays" bar bet.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
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whodathunkit
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by whodathunkit »

I tryed to tell hem nicely about the battle scars!

Whoda.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
j.m.
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by j.m. »

whodathunkit wrote:I tryed to tell hem nicely about the battle scars!

Whoda.
I wasn't really concerned about winning, although it is a nice bonus to the event. Actually, I was 100% accepting of the shown results of 50th place...if the car was indeed running forward, and that was the best it would do. The main problem with this is, is that a problem arose with the car, and instead of stopping, and getting the owner up to address the issue, they just shrugged thier shoulders, and ran it backwards. Also, the event was a failure in many other parents eyes, as the boys were not involved with the race what-so-ever. The boys were not allowed to touch their own cars. They had to sit in the auidience with the parents,(witch there weren't enough seats for) and watch the race as a spectator. Anyway, my father-in-law was talking to one of the higher-ups at the event, and he said that this years derby was the worst they have ever had. They had ALOT of camplaints about other things not involved in my incedent. I have a feeling things will be different next year. The whole thing about the kids not allowed to be involved in the race got on the nerves of other parents as well. They ran the race for 15 min. and the took a 30min intermission. Then ran the second round (15min) and took another 30min intermission, then ran the 3rd round. By the second round, all the kids were off doing other crafts, and just plain running around the building, even while the race was going on. The boys found something to get involved in, and unfortunately, it wasn't the race. I am sorry for those taking my ranting out of context, part of this is venting to those of you who understand how this event is supposed to go, and part is me just getting over the fact that grown adult leaders knowingly didn't give a 9yr old boy a fair chance to participate in an event that is supposed to be for him and other boys. Next year...if we make it to districts, I know how to avoid the problems we had this year, and we can have fun, and not spend the event arguing with the officials. We are already tossing ideas around for next year's car, as I think it might be nice to poke at it all year instead of cramming it in after x-mas.
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Re: Got screwed at Districts...Big Time!!!!

Post by PhantomVirus »

I have to tell you that our District race was done in simiar fashion. Once checked in the boys and parents could NOT touch the cars again - no graphite between races - no nothing. The only thing that they did differently was to allow the boys within rank to sit alongside the track and watch their cars compete.

Everything was done in an automated fashion so things moved along pretty quickly. The computer posted the results of each race - when the rank races were done the computer posted final results - trophies give out and then the next rank. Our district was actually done 30 minutes ahead of schedule - we ALMOST missed the final few races as we were going by the published schedule which estimated that the finals were going off @ 4PM, we arrived @ 4:07 just to see 2 of my sons 6 total races for grand champion title go off.

He is a Tiger and we did not want to spend the entire day watching the races as my daughter had gymnastics and my son also had a baseball practice in between......

I have to commend our district though - they kept the drama to a minimum, enforced the published rules in a judicious manner and when they accudentlaly raced one kids car backward (to be honest nobody could not tell the front from the back) they nullified the race and re-ran it.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to be a co leader for the event - I know our pack and district always need help.

Best of luck to you for next year......
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