Using a maple block

[mebetree]

One family in our pack has shown up with ridiculously fast cars the past three years that are shaved to about an 1/8th of an inch thick over the entire body so they could maximize weight in the rear. The only thicker section is where the axles are. And these aren't wedges or wings. They are shaped like real cars and hollowed out perfectly. It always bothered the leaders how this family managed to make cars so thin without cracking the bodies but the cars always passed tech and no one pushed the family to explain how they did it.

I think I finally figured it out. In looking at the grain,there are over two dozen rings on the car between the top and bottom, maybe more. I've looked at every pine block I have and lots of pictures of pine blocks on the internet and every one has between 6 and 12 rings from top to bottom. It's obviously a different type of wood that is coming in the BSA kit.

My question is, how do you positively identify a piece of wood as maple vs pine vs whatever?

[FatSebastian]

It's obviously a different type of wood that is coming in the BSA kit. [...] My question is, how do you positively identify a piece of wood as maple vs pine vs whatever?

Is it against your unit's rules to use a different type of wood, or is the question meant to satisfy curiosity? (That is, is the motivation to possibly establish an inspection criterion?)

[rpcarpe]

I genrally identify wood by grain type and color. Your family might be picking VERY closely grained pine.
Saw a block last night that had 20+ rings bottom to top.

If you rules specify something like 'must use BSA body, wheels & axles' then they could be in trouble.

Ask them how they make the cars!

[mebetree]

Curiosity.

[drathbun]

I genrally identify wood by grain type and color. Your family might be picking VERY closely grained pine.
Saw a block last night that had 20+ rings bottom to top.

For the last several years I have been buying the kits for our pack and passing them out. Parents or siblings pay me for the kits, scouts get their first kit for free. I get reimbursed from the pack for those (yay popcorn!) I had one dad come in and want to open the boxes to find the block that "looked the best" because he wanted to stain his, rather than paint, so he wanted a lot of grain. I didn't want to open all the boxes because then you lose axles and wheels and besides the kits that I don't use I return to the scout shop.

So what we did was weigh a bunch of the kits that I had until we found the heaviest one. When we opened it, the block itself was over 6.5 ounces and it had a very dense grain. It really was a pretty piece of wood, and I look forward to how it works as a Derby car.

Does your pack distribute the kits, or do parents get their own? It's possible they take a scale to the scout shop and buy the heavier kits, I know I read about at least one person here that took a scale to the shop to find blocks with a certain weight characteristic... that would mean that getting the high-grain blocks is not an accident, but something they actively look for.

[FatSebastian]

In looking at the grain,there are over two dozen rings on the car between the top and bottom, maybe more. I've looked at every pine block I have and lots of pictures of pine blocks on the internet and every one has between 6 and 12 rings from top to bottom.

Pine blocks can vary quite a bit in terms of the exposed grain pattern, depending on how the wood is oriented. There's some discussion and illustrations of pine blocks in this topic.

When we opened it, the block itself was over 6.5 ounces and it had a very dense grain.

Although, experience suggests that block weight does not always correlate with a favorable grain pattern.

My question is, how do you positively identify a piece of wood as maple vs pine vs whatever?

Here's one idea.

[mebetree]

I'd say the grain on this wood was finer and more evenly spaced than every single one in that thread. And perfectly orientated (going across the width).

I'm not sure how the parents would react to the ice pick through the car test.

I'll post a picture after the race.

[drathbun]

When we opened it, the block itself was over 6.5 ounces and it had a very dense grain.

Although, experience suggests that block weight does not always correlate with a favorable grain pattern.

What a fascinating topic! Thanks for the link. I've been going back as time allows and reading older topics here, but I had not seen that one yet.

[BallBoy]

In additon to grain pattern that has already been cited, another way to tell the difference is in the hardness. Take your thumbnail and make an indentation in an inconspicuous place in the wood. Pine will easily indent, maple will not. Maple is a fairly dense and hard wood and is frequently found in drum sticks and pool cues.

[dna1990]

Take your thumbnail and make an indentation in an inconspicuous place in the wood.

True but if these are legit pine cars, then they obviouslly put a ton of work into them, which would also mean a serious clearcoat or arcylic finish, which could act as a hardner.


menetree - snap us a picture this year, they sound pretty cool looking. As to whether a scout could pull it off with the original pine block...who knows. Sounds like a lot of super detail dremel and sanding from the inside.

[slipperyfrog]

In additon to grain pattern that has already been cited, another way to tell the difference is in the hardness. Take your thumbnail and make an indentation in an inconspicuous place in the wood. Pine will easily indent, maple will not. Maple is a fairly dense and hard wood and is frequently found in drum sticks and pool cues.

I would not judge it by something like a thumbnail. It is amazing how hard you can make a wood like balsa or basswood with a good wood hardener.

[PWD]

Having done this now for 14 years and having built well over 200 cars with 5 of my 6 boys, youngest is not interested, I can tell you that what type of wood someone uses for the car is not going to make any significant difference.

IMHO, barking up the wrong tree.

Is it possible they have a track, spend a lot of time on the car, the father is an engineer, machinist, they have good tools and know how to use them? Been building cars for many years with older siblings? Related to Stan?

I love pinewood derby with my kids. The only black-eye with PWD is the common assumption that people are cheating. I am sure some do cheat. That's life. There is nothing, that I can think of, where there is a stronger assumption about cheating than the PWD. No sports, hobby, etc. Nothing.

[sporty]

I have used different wood for adult racing, but I seen no real advantage over many of those woods. Most of the fastest cars I ever built were out of pine.

Sporty

[slipperyfrog]

The only black-eye with PWD is the common assumption that people are cheating. I am sure some do cheat. That's life. There is nothing, that I can think of, where there is a stronger assumption about cheating than the PWD. No sports, hobby, etc. Nothing.

I still think this is a root problem with PWD. It is demonstrated again in this thread. Suspect the winner, not improve the loser. The discussion of "what kind of wood is that car made from?" is another example of why I think the rules need to be wrangled way back. Anyone could build a car with any kind of wood and do it in a way you would never be able to tell unless you cut it in half. In this case it does not really matter what kind of wood was used. The fact that people have gotten beat repeatedly is probably the real issue.

Here is a better idea that has worked for me & my sons. Don't suspect. Approach the family and ask them if they could help your family with your car builds. You may be surprised how fast your car is next year.

[FatSebastian]

I'm not sure how the parents would react to the ice pick through the car test.

I thought it was a question of curiosity rather than to establish an inspection criterion?

I'll post a picture after the race.

Looking forward to it!