How Not to Run A Pinewood Derby Event

[Lakewood]

We have a 2 page rule book in our district that if we cut the extra wording could probably be cut to about a page and a half, so it's pretty simple i think. I have inspected our pack cars for a number of years now. I take an different approach to the rules that has caught on well with the parents. I will only accept a car at inspection if it is handed to me my the boy, not the parent. After that only the boys are allowed to touch the car (except in cases of damage). If I see some modification to the car, that is not specifically against the rules, I ask the boy why they made this modification. If he knows why it was done, I smile and check him in. If he has no idea why, I send him and the parent to the back of the line until the boy can tell me why they made the modification. It has worked really well and I get very few boys that do not understand what they have done to the car. It has become a game to the parents to listen to all the innovative ideas that have been put into the cars. The beauty of it is that our packs races have gotten closer and closer every year. What were once secrets, now flow like water among the parents and boys.

[Speedster]

I have read this topic many, many times. I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth.
I think the Pinewood Derby is changing drastically. Our District is struggling on whether to allow the Revelle kit cars in the competition. I don't doubt they will be allowed because it's going to be Big Money for the Boy Scouts of America. We had several that made it to our District races this year. We have a huge family owned company in our area with 3 stores. Every January, on one day from 9 to 4, any store will cut out your car for you. It can't be a Batmobile but there are enough designs offered that something will satisfy the scout. The lines are long but the people wait patiently because they get free sandpaper to sand their cars after it's cut. Two years ago the 3 stores cut out a total of 600 cars. One nice thing about it is, they always use the short end for the front. My sympathy to the scouts.

I've seen cars on DT with long wheel bases, Positive camber on a front wheel, the other front wheel off the ground, Negative camber on rear wheels. Who runs these Districts? God Bless Them. I notice most strict rules involve the wheels and axles. I have heard "A rule that can't be enforced is not a good rule". How is an inspector going to tell if you sanded your axle and polished it or you machined your axle and polished it or if you did nothing to your axle? He can't. The wheel hides it. How is an inspector going to tell if you turned your wheel on a lathe or you sanded it with a block of wood and a piece of sandpaper. He can't and probably doesn't care anyway. It's been said before, all these rules do is have a reverse affect on what they're trying to do. All these rules accomplish is "An Attempt to Dumb Down the Scouts". I've heard this is going on somewhere else in the U.S.

OK Johnny, that knot is good enough. It'll probably hold. There's not going to be any wind tonight. Don't worry about the sloppy job you did setting up your tent.

Get rid of these ridiculous rules that can't be enforced. Turn the boys loose and let them learn something. These boys are the future.
Respecfully,
Speedster

[pack529holycross]

As a derby event coordinator for several years, I can tell you that I have a few primary motivations for each of my rules. First, I want my "customers" to come away ffrom my events with the feeling that their efforts were worth the time and money invested in the project of pinewood derby. I want them to go back to their packs and say "you should have been there!!!!!". Most importantly, I try very hard to make sure everyone walks away with full recognition of their efforts. To that end, I provide personalized certificates, stickers, patches, coloring books, race car drivers cards, etc to each paid entry, and we love having siblings and adult entries.

The best way I have found to insure customer satisfaction, is to anticipate things which can cause issues. Clearly we as coordinators can only anticipate such issues as a result of NOT previously experiencing them, and amending our processes and/or rules to compensate going forward. So, in short, most all of the rules in my events come from real life experiences. A few examples:

Axle slots and locations..... Once I was made aware of the gross lack of consistency in the manufacturing of pwd stock bodies, I came to the honest conclusion that forcing "stock" slots usage provided NO baseline of fairness, and could easily disadvantage anyone with slots out of alignment. I personally consider any rule based on a faulty premise to be a faulty rule, and since there cannot be a 100% assurance of manufacturing consistency, how can we possibly pretend that "stock slots" equates to true fairness ... Not to mention limits creativity of design possibilities. Our rule? No portion of the car may protrude beyond the contact point of the starting pin, either running the car frontwards or backwards, and standard underbody / inner track clearances must allow the car to roll freely down the track. Conclusion.... Protrusion spec: fully enforceable, easily taught. Clearances specs: clearly enforceable, easily taught.

Heres the link to my event guide developed and modified over the years:

http://seminolesprings.com/cubscouts/wp ... 072011.pdf" target="_blank

[Speedster]

OK, pack529holycross. You've given me more than I would have asked for. I didn't really need the extended wheelbase but, Thank You. I can go back to teaching Rotational Energy, tell people to buy their wheels and axles, and teach them how to build a fast car. As for the "No Cant", the wheel seems to have a natural Positive cant to it because of the tapered hub. Since the wheel is Concave I will simply machine the wheel flat and then put the slightest taper on it. That should run the nail out against the head and keep it there which is all I want to do. I would think that would pass your inspection easily. All Kidding aside, I love your article and I love your rules. Why the "No Cant"? All the scouts want to do is build a legal Rail Rider. Think of what they will learn. It's a lot easier for everyone to change camber than it is to cut new axle slots.
Thanks for your article. I feel it is excellent. I will forward it to our District Chiefs.
Cheers
Speedster

[Eracer]

...All these rules accomplish is "An Attempt to Dumb Down the Scouts". I've heard this is going on somewhere else in the U.S.

OK Johnny, that knot is good enough. It'll probably hold. There's not going to be any wind tonight. Don't worry about the sloppy job you did setting up your tent.

Get rid of these ridiculous rules that can't be enforced. Turn the boys loose and let them learn something. These boys are the future.
Respecfully,
Speedster

Don't want to get in depth regarding what rules are outdated and how the rules should change. There are other threads for those discussions. The rules are the rules and, in the Scouting organization, they are expected to be followed. If you don't want to abide by the rules, don't participate. If you don't agree with the rules, be involved with your PWD committee to change them but don't cheat because you dislike the rules.

Rules requiring stock parts is not "dumbing down" the scouts and I see no correlation of stock rules and the statement "...that knot is good enough... Don't worry about the sloppy job.." rather it is you are expected to learn how to tie and utilize a proper taught line hitch to pitch your tent and not go the easier way using pre-fab rope locks purchased from a sporting goods store. Making a competitive car of a stock configuration can be just as challenging, takes the same attention to detail and teaches the Scout similar skills as is done to make a modified car.

I am not against having rules that allow modifications as long as they can be done by common, inexpensive means that kids can safely do with the help of an adult. The Scout has to be involved in making the modifications, not purchased. The modification has to be able to be performed with simple, common tools. If you help your child use a lathe to perform the operation fine, but the operation has to also be doable with an inexpensive drill press or handheld type electric drill; maybe not as easy to do but can still be done.

"Turn the boys loose and let them learn something. These boys are the future."

All for it, as long as it "turns the boys loose", not the adults. The BSA PWD is intended to be a fun learning experience from the time the Scout is handed the kit box until he picks up his car after it crosses the finish line. Getting to the finish line as fast as you can is not the only goal to the event, it is only one step with many lessons that should be learned in between.

[Speedster]

I Agree.