How Not to Run A Pinewood Derby Event

[Eracer]

My son just finished his 5th year qualifying and placing in our District PWD and qualified to race in his 5th and final Council event but...

Our District was merged with 2 others this year and we had a new venue with a new PWD Chairman for this year's event. We had 5 tracks (one for each rank) staffed with a minimum number of people from each Pack that donated their track. Each had to register and run their assigned rank races. The venue was too small and overcrowded for the size of the group and it was chaotic at times during registration and during the event (approximately 600 people that included the 220 Cubs entered in the event). Two of the tracks never were used because of timer issues and the entries moved over to other tracks which prolonged the event and added to the confusion.

I volunteered to stage cars for our Pack's track and during staging discovered 4 cars in our rank that had lightweight wheels (machined inside the wheel tread). The race Chairman instructed all volunteers prior to the event to bring all rule violations to him and he would deal with the parents so we could continue our chore. When I brought the wheels to his attention he did not know what machined wheels looked like and didn't realize the advantages they might provide. After explaining to him, he immediately notified one of the parents and, after a involved discussion, DQ'd the car. He let 2 of the others run but told us to DQ them after the heat races were over and didn't tell the parents until after the fact. One other he let go and it went on to race in the final championship race.

We were the only rank that DQ'd cars. The other registration tables were checking nothing more than the standard weight and dimensions. I was overloaded just trying to do what needed to be done at our station and didn't have time to get into an instructional session with the Chairman and other stations.

After the event finished and we were packing up I overheard one of the parents discussing with another how he brought 2 cars, one modified (as he squeezed the O.D. of the wheel to show how thin they were) and another stock in case they caught him at registration. The "modified" car ran in the final championship race as well my son's car (which met the rules).

My son builds very competitive cars (with my and this forum's help) and he was the reigning District champion. This year he finished 2nd in his rank and 6th in the Championship race having to race against some "illegal" cars. Cars were more closely inspected in past years and if there were any that were non-compliant, they were not obvious like this year.

After the event was over, I did not bring up that they allowed non-compliant cars in the Championship race. It had been a long disorganized day and there was no glory in getting a Cub upset over losing a trophy that his parent stretched the rules to get for him. It will be a more productive discussion at the next roundtable meeting.

As we were leaving and I started to explain to my son about the other cars, he stopped me and said "Dad, it's okay. I didn't get a trophy but I still won because we didn't cheat" . His comment brought tears to my eyes and made me realize that my son, bridging into Boy Scouts next week, has learned a Scout is Trustworthy.

I will be volunteering to inspect cars at the Council PWD in a couple of weeks.

[Stan Pope]

Arghhhh!!!!

[gpraceman]

Yikes! Sounds like a good opportunity for improvement. You might consider volunteering to be on the committee and help with planning the next district race.

I helped at two of our district races and was the coordinator for two others. I get a headache trying to think if we had tried running with multiple tracks and having all of those boys there at once trying to check-in and race. Our district races were organized quite a bit different. Each rank had its designated time slot. As one rank was racing, another was checking in. We used a single 4 lane track setup. It was a bit long of a day for the race crew, but the logistics were easier to manage. The crowd size was more manageable and finding a venue to fit wasn't too hard.

[rpcarpe]

Oh!
Glad to see your son learned good lessons. That's a great response.

I'm helping in our District race this Saturday, despite my repeated offers to work inspection or pit... they wanted me to help run races during the last couple of hours. I'll show up and work most of the day.

Of interest - Rules say 'must have four wheels'... PWD chair thinks that means 'four flat on the floor'. We may have a small 'discussion' at the inspection tables.

The deeper problem is lack of qualified volunteers for higher level PWD races. I'll barely have time to work that Saturday, and the Saturday in May for Council. But next year, I'll set aside time to work it all through the season.

Good luck at council, get the rules, learn the rules, live the rules.

[Noskills]

Hope you sometime son some ice cream. You must be proud of his mature response.
Noskills

[Eracer]

...Our district races were organized quite a bit different. Each rank had its designated time slot. As one rank was racing, another was checking in. We used a single 4 lane track setup. It was a bit long of a day for the race crew, but the logistics were easier to manage. The crowd size was more manageable and finding a venue to fit wasn't too hard.

Fortunately our Council race will be organized in a similar fashion as you mention. Council rules are also very specific this year and the Council PWD Chairman has been coordinating PWD's for a number of years. His goal is to get the cars back to being built with only the components that come in the box (other than ballast, lube, decor). The upcoming Council race will be my son's last since we are moving into Boy Scouts but I am volunteering to inspect the cars at the Council event. Have handled, machined, and measured enough wheels over the past 5 years (open class cars, daughters' cars, open my shop to assist other Cubs) that my fingers can feel if the tread is thinner than stock without even looking at them. Use calipers as a back-up and a visual for enforcement but can catch most by feel. Don't usually need to pull out the calipers since most wheel mod's are visually obvious for those that know what to look for.

[Zackracing]

While this may be viewed as an example of how to not run an event, the larger example is how a boy starts to become a man...and a good one, at that. That is a huge turning point. I hope I can do as well with my young son. What an amazing insight for a child. And, it makes me take stock of my time and input with my boy.

[Derby Evolution]

Zack hit it on the head! The bigger picture was one young man knowing that he worked hard and did his best. The $10 trophy was not the important thing to your son. It sounds to me that what he valued was the time spent with you and the fun you guys had together.

It does amaze me what people will do for a trophy. I have handed trophies to people before races have started before and told them that if they felt the need to cheat that they could just take one of my trophies, because it was more important to them then it was to me (this is always the parent, never a scout). These are people that clearly knew the rules, but decided that they needed to cheat to try and win. This is scout racing and honesty is far more important then the trophy. I always take an old trophy or two to the scout races and make sure that there are enough trophies to give out a sportsman or design trophy (I just take off the old name plate). It doesn't have to be all about the race.

[FatSebastian]

I have handed trophies to people ... because it was more important to them than it was to me (this is always the parent...).

What responses has that evoked?

[Derby Evolution]

Often they hang their head as they know what they did.

[WI_Dad]

I find all the rules related discussions very interesting. If I understand correctly, the intent with rules as they pertain to wheels is to keep everyone on a level playing field in terms of the tools and equipment needed to be competitive. So the guys with mini-lathes or deep pockets to buy aftermarket wheels don't have an unbeatable advantage.

This seems to contrast the competition for finish where it seems pretty much anything goes in terms of the tools needed/used and aftermarket add ons.

From what I see on this forum, the rules consistently fail to keep the playing field level. Whether it is on a district level or at the individual inspector level, interpretation or enforcement of the rules seems to vary greatly which ends up with exactly the result that is trying to be avoided. Except now it gives the advantage to those willing to cheat or bend the rules as far as they can get away with. This situation seems worse to me. Furthermore, the extensive rules would seem to inhibit inovation and testing. While that may not be the point of holding the derby, I believe it is a useful byproduct when teaching kids to think outside the box, solve problems, and network.

I commend the Eracer's son for having such a mature reaction (obviously a result of good parenting). But, I wonder if a situation has been created in an attempt to be fair that actually results in more unfairness. I could relate this to more real lift examples but I don't want to broach those subjects on what I have found to be such a civil forum.

[Eracer]

...From what I see on this forum, the rules consistently fail to keep the playing field level. Whether it is on a district level or at the individual inspector level, interpretation or enforcement of the rules seems to vary greatly which ends up with exactly the result that is trying to be avoided...Furthermore, the extensive rules would seem to inhibit inovation and testing. While that may not be the point of holding the derby, I believe it is a useful byproduct when teaching kids to think outside the box, solve problems, and network...

I support innovation and thinking out of the box and am not against pushing the envelope within the boundaries of the rules. Inspectors are volunteers that only perform the PWD function for an hour or so once per year and, for most, forgotten about until the next year. If you're lucky you will get one or two that volunteer for the years their boy is a Cub. It's not a perfect system. Those interested can improve it by educating the newer inspectors and create an overall attitude within the Pack that the event is intended to be a fun competition for the boys, not a competition where adults compete against other cubs vicariously through their son (an open class race for the parents with liberal rules helps with this).

We impose car construction rules not just to level the playing field. The PWD activity is intended to be more than just learning how to use innovation and out of the box thinking to beat your competition. I don’t need to list all the points a PWD activity is intended to foster in our children since the members of this forum can come up with many, but I will lead into a few. Please bear with me as I step onto my soap box.

For our Pack's PWD event, the intent of the rules is for the boy and his parent (or other Akela) to share in building a car using the components contained in the car kit. Wheels and axles can be perfected by removing the manufacturing flaws and the car must meet body dimension and weight spec’s. The components used are intended to be “stock”. This is not the extent of our rules but all that are needed for this post. If you want to make a car outside of the “stock” rules, then you can build a car for our open class event which allows enough modification to interest the "pine head" but keeps costs and skills in line for the once a year warrior.

You can give these simple rules to 20 people and most will view them as self explanatory but some “innovative” folks in the group will purposely interpret a competitive edge into them. Rules stating the car must be built for the current year does not mean you order a pre-built body or car prior to the event. Truing the wheel tread surface to remove imperfections does not mean you can also remove material from inside the wheel to make it lighter because the rules did not address it specifically. Rules stating you must use axles and wheels from the kit does not mean it's okay to replace them with machined parts purchased from commercial suppliers, even if they were "official" parts before treatment.

Intentionally “stretching the rules” is almost always done by the adult, hardly at all by the child. It's a shame the “rules in the box” have to be rewritten using numerous paragraphs to address every conceivable modification for what is primarily an event for children. It is sad that some have had to make it necessary to include dimensions in their rules for axles and wheels that go to 3 decimals even though most children won’t know how to use calipers or micrometers (and many parents don’t have a need for).

With Cub Scouts, all activities we have for them (including PWD) are intended to help teach our boys the core values of Cub Scouting and the Scout laws such as: be trustworthy (others can rely on you to follow the rules), be thrifty (it is not necessary to spend 10’s or 100’s of dollars to build a competitive derby car), be obedient (follow the rules), have a positive attitude and be cheerful (it is not necessary to win an award in order to be happy), to be courteous (congratulate those you beat and those that beat you in the race), be kind (don’t criticize or make fun of those that don’t have fast cars or don’t have an attractive design).

It is my job as a Scout leader to help teach these values to our children and help lay a foundation of positive attributes for them to build on as they grow into adults. Stepping off my soap box.

[WI_Dad]

Well said Eracer and I agree with you very much.

We have the same goals for our Pioneers. It just seems a shame that the rules have become so complex and detailed that I doubt a lot of the kids would understand some of them on there own. It would be nice if it could be as simple as here is your kit, no aftermarket parts, must meet these dimensions to fit down the track and make it simple and clear to the folks checking in the cars, use your imaginations, and have fun.

[FatSebastian]

This is not the extent of our rules but all that are needed for this post.

Eracer, are these your Council rules?

[Eracer]

Yes. Much more definitive than prior years. I was not involved in writing them but do support them.