Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

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Shawn Stebleton
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Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:58 am

Congratulations to tmack's son on his 3rd place finish in the district race yesterday afternoon!

I don't have the times of all the races yet, but I did get your son's times. They are, in order that they were raced:

T's times:
2.895 (lane 3)
2.918 (lane 2)
2.890 (lane 1)
8.703 total

my son's times:
2.881 (lane 3)
2.901 (lane 2)
2.933 (lane 1)
8.715 total

My son thinks something happened to his car during the stop section of his 2nd heat. He says the front of his car got popped up by the blanket that was being used to stop the cars. My worry is that another car may have hit his and knocked the alignment off. The first two runs were smooth as silk, riding that rail perfectly. [Edit]Actually, his car was wobbling back and forth on the first two runs.[/Edit] The third run had the wobbles real bad. :sick:

Info for other DT readers:
The track was the same one as the last several years--an old style Best Track with the brutal tight-radius curve. There was the start section, the curve section, and three flat running sections, with the timer near the end of the 3rd flat, followed by the braking (breaking?!?) section. Lane 4 was not used, as the sensors don't function on them, and haven't for years. Heats were done in a lane-rotation order--those on lane 3 in one heat moved to lane 2 the next, then lane 1 right after that.

The track was very bumpy, as cars were bouncing around all over the place. Many popped wheelies out of the curve, but that was due to severe rear-weighting on the part of the contestants. What was more troublesome to me was the number of cars that jumped out of their lanes. One popped its front end up at one of the joints on the flat and ended up with the right front wheel in the channel between the rail guides. It looked as if it might have interfered with the neighboring car, but they did not rerun the heat. I haven't had a chance to look at the entire video, but my son said that several cars got popped up but most of them landed right back down straddling the lane guide rails. I also noticed a lot of cars just plain bouncing up and down within the lane, as if they were riding on a Baja race course with all four wheels being airborne several times during a heat.

I have video of our build, where we used hands-on-hands for a good bit of it. We used a Dremel plunge router attachment with my hands over his to rout out the entire bottom of the car. We also used a Dremel Moto-Shop scroll saw (my first use of a power tool when I was a Cub Scout building my Pinewood Derby cars with my dad) to cut into the sides and front. The design was the Kennywood arrow. Kennywood is a local amusement park. There were two Kennywood arrow cars this year. My son's was the thin one. The other looked to be the full block height.

We had fun during our build. We ran short on time for the Pack race and ended up with a bad rear wheel and took 3rd place there. We found it out and replaced it, and thought we had a good car. This was his last year, as he crosses over next month.

[Note: Edited to correct the description of his first two runs.]
Last edited by Shawn Stebleton on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Shawn

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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by tmack » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:56 am

Hey Shawn.
Thanks for posting the times.
I was looking for you last night. I think we were both on the balcony since we were up there and issac was looking up there as well. Oh well.

Yeah it was a humbling night for us as well. But we still had a great time.

I do think its time for a new track for districts. We were examining before the race and saw 1/8" gaps at the joints. The trasition was not smooth at all.

I too questioned maybe damage occrred during the race but when we got home we cheched the alignment and dfw for nics but both were fine. I'm now starting to wonder when is a track too bad that a rr is not the way to go. Do you know if the 1st or 2nd place were RRs?
Where did those two boys come from? Lol

Also we are planning on doing mid america this year. Looks like fun. You should think about doing it. Ill send you pm.



Shawn Stebleton
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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:42 pm

I was down below. My wife and older son were up on the balcony. That's why Isaac was looking up. I was looking for you down below. Now I know why I didn't see you down there.

I didn't look at the track in detail before the race. Perhaps I should have. What you describe sounds bad. Maybe that contributed to some of the bad things that happened.

We've been busy since the district race, with visiting friends at dinner, Scout Sunday at church, a bowling tournament, and now the Super Bowl. I haven't had a chance to look at Isaac's car. I'm hoping to get the track times from our Cub Master. The hosting pack will be sending the times to all the Cub Masters, so you could ask yours. They haven't been sent yet, to my knowledge.

Stan, if you are reading this, would you like to get the complete list minus names? I know you do like some complete stats of races for analysis. If I get them, I'd be willing to pass it along.

I don't think we'll be able to do Mid-America. We have so many other things going on in our lives and adding that is just beyond what we can do. The specs are enough different than our district rules require that we'd have to do a new build to be competitive.

Even with Isaac finishing out of the trophy list, he enjoyed the build and the whole event. Even the staff running the event complimented him on his car, and he enjoyed telling them things about how he and I built it. I hope you and your son had a good time, too.


Shawn

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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:25 pm

I found the times of the first and second place winners.

1st place:
2.886 (lane 3)
2.900 (lane 2)
2.893 (lane 1)
8.679 total

2nd place:
2.911 (lane 3)
2.882 (lane 2)
2.886 (lane 3)
8.679 total

Yes, that's right. They tied for first. Why did they not announce it that way??? They announced a 2nd place and a 1st place! Perhaps they just didn't want to go through the hassle of making another trophy like the 1st place one. Perhaps they awarded "2nd" place to the Wolf and "1st" place to the Webelos because they knew the Wolf would have a chance of winning in future years. It doesn't seem right. It isn't right.

Regardless, your son was only 0.024 seconds behind them, which is very close! I'll have to go through the entire video and put the times in a spreadsheet if I don't get the totals soon. My son is visiting a Boy Scout Troop meeting tomorrow evening in preparation for crossing over in a month, so I won't get time to enter anything until Wednesday at the earliest. I have no idea if anyone was between our sons in order. My son wants to know so bad....


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by DerbyAddicted » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:54 am

They probably had soe criteria for tie breaking that determined 1st and 2nd.



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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by tmack » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:48 am

Very interesting. They should do as our pack and have a set of heats for the top 3 cars to award the trophies. But yeah to not even ackowledge it in front of everyone doesn't seem right.

Just curious Shawn, which way did you guys set up your drift? Ride left or right guide edge? Drift left or right. We went with to the left(rode right edge) with about 3 to 5" per 4'. Need to go back and look at john4840 and his son's RJs car specs to see what side of the rail they rode on. Too late now to use this info and we are done as well with scouts but if there is a pattern I will definately pass on to my pack's dads for next year. But our luck they will get a new track lol



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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:06 am

tmack wrote:Just curious Shawn, which way did you guys set up your drift? Ride left or right guide edge? Drift left or right. We went with to the left(rode right edge) with about 3 to 5" per 4'. Need to go back and look at john4840 and his son's RJs car specs to see what side of the rail they rode on. Too late now to use this info and we are done as well with scouts but if there is a pattern I will definately pass on to my pack's dads for next year. But our luck they will get a new track lol
The folks who prepared my grandson's pack's Piantidosi track (shellac, I think) let it dry on its left side. The result was that there were numerous small "runs" of thicker than average shellac out from the left side of the rails! Cars that ran on that track needed to use the right front wheel as dominant! (Of course, we had set up for left! Did okay, but didn't blow their doors off!)


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by tmack » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:40 pm

OK! Doing some detective work by looking at photos of the district race winners holding their cars and my son describing the cars to me "money car" and radioactive car" below are pics of the 1st and 2nd place winners.
The first place "money" car is definitely a RR, the Left front wheel is lifted, also has extended front end. The second place "radioactive" car has cant tell if RR or not...could be a 4 wheeler.....not sure.

The 1st place money car rode on the right side of the guide just like our car..soooooooooo they simply made a better RR (or tuned better) so it seems.

1st
Image

2nd
Image



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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by DerbyAddicted » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:06 pm

It looks like the Radioactive car's right front may be raised. Just looks a little high compared to the other wheels. Which means it would have been riding the left rail.



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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:58 pm

tmack wrote:Just curious Shawn, which way did you guys set up your drift? Ride left or right guide edge? Drift left or right.
We had the DFW on the left. Most years we've done it that way. One year I got messed up and accidentally guided my son opposite of what we planned on, as the car was upside down where all our markings were. I forgot to "turn it over" in my mind that time and we ended up with a right DFW instead.

I spent some time and hand-typed in the times from the video. I double-checked them.

My son came in 4th. He said "Are you kidding???" He is a good sport about it. We figured out that if his third run (lane 1) had been halfway between the times of his first two runs, he would have won 1st, all other things being equal. That is what an alignment that is just off a bit can do. Either that, or the car didn't have enough drift to the rail. It was about 3 inches in 3-1/2 feet. Last year was 8 inches and he won 1st place. That track is rougher than our old wood track.
Stan Pope wrote:The folks who prepared my grandson's pack's Piantidosi track (shellac, I think) let it dry on its left side. The result was that there were numerous small "runs" of thicker than average shellac out from the left side of the rails!
But aluminum tracks shouldn't need shellac! Maybe this one does!! :rofl:


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by gpraceman » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:28 am

Shawn Stebleton wrote:But aluminum tracks shouldn't need shellac! Maybe this one does!! :rofl:
Piantedosi originally made wooden tracks. Later they started making aluminum tracks. Then they were bought out by Micro Wizard.


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Stan Pope » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:37 am

Shawn Stebleton wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:The folks who prepared my grandson's pack's Piantidosi track (shellac, I think) let it dry on its left side. The result was that there were numerous small "runs" of thicker than average shellac out from the left side of the rails!
But aluminum tracks shouldn't need shellac! Maybe this one does!! :rofl:
Well .... no, if you are running aluminum, probably not! :)


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by tmack » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:25 am

Did some further digging...I really need to convert this energy into something more productive...like a new Mid America Car!!

Anyway, did some more research on the past Bushy Run champs, That being Shawn's and Johns boys. Please chime in if incorrect guys.
Only other nice fact to have would be COM but can't have everything! I guess we could assume a typical 1/2" to 5/8" COM.

Year ------DFW------Drift ------Car
2014 ------ R ------ ? ------ (webelo?) money car
2013 ------ L ------8”/4' ------ (Isaac) plank car
2012------ L------ 4”/6’ ------ (RJ) fire car
2011 ------ L ------ 3.5”/4’ ------ (RJ) skull car
2010 ------ L ------ 3.5"/4’ ------ (RJ) lightning bolt car

So what does this all mean? I have no idea! But still some neat historical trivia.
Shawn, John, have we been using the same track past five years?
Tom
Last edited by tmack on Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.



Shawn Stebleton
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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:02 pm

tmack wrote:Shawn, John, have we been using the same track past five years?
No.

In 2010 and 2011, they used a different pack's Best Track. I think that one had the newer 4' radius curve and not the nasty 2' radius one. I'll have to dig out some old pics to verify, if I have any that include that part of the track. It had four lanes, each with a color stripe between the two rails the entire length. They were red, white, blue, and yellow, going from closest to the computer table to closest to the cub bullpen. It was set up in the same orientation as the most recent one. I don't recall how many issues it had. I just remember the problems trying to read the scoring info, color-coded by lane, on the projector screen. Blue against blue didn't show up well, and the rather light yellow got washed out. The large HDTV of the current setup is a major improvement in legibility.

For 2008 and 2009 they used a wooden hand made track of the Cub Scout How-To variety that ran very smoothly. It, too, had colored lanes. They were at the mall, in the same location, set up in the same orientation as have the ones since. [Pics 5466, 5490, 5502 thru 5505, and 5520, among others, are of my older son Jacob and/or his car. He won 2nd place in 2009.]

For 2007, they used an off-white 3-lane track made of either wood or some other material (not aluminum) that resembled a 28' Piantedosi classic track in physical structure. That was the first year they brought back the District race after a number of years of not having one. That race was held at Queen of Angels School cafeteria, which was too small to hold the event. It was very crowded, and no food. Ugh!


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Re: Bushy Run District 2014 Cub races

Post by Shawn Stebleton » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:18 pm

tmack wrote:Anyway, did some more research on the past Bushy Run champs, That being Shawn's and Johns boys. Please chime in if incorrect guys.
Only other nice fact to have would be COM but can't have everything! I guess we could assume a typical 1/2" to 5/8" COM.

Year ------DFW------Drift ------Car
2013 ------ L ------8”/4' ------ (Isaac) wedge car
Actually, Isaac's car was a plank car, routed out as completely as possible, with the underside of the front end tapered up to the wing front end, and with the rear being two rectangular holes for the vertically-placed weights. It had a canopy cut from my wife's business card glued on top of the holes to hide the weights. CoM was about 5/8".

He had basically the same design the previous year when he finished 2nd to RJ. I don't remember the drift, on that one, though. Same DFW side (L), same canopy, same under taper on the front.

Thanks for your research! It's a good summary.


Shawn

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