Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

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gman247
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Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by gman247 »

(If this would be better in a different forum, please move it there! Thanks.)

My wife who is a den leader and a Wotamalo rep was greeted with this email tonight:
Scouting Parents,
Does your Pinewood Derby Car still have some life in it?
Would your son like another chance to have fun?
Come out and race… at the Heartland or Wotamalo District Pinewood Derby races.

It is not too late to register. You can sign up as a Pack, a Den, or just you and your son. Join us Saturday, February 15th at Hickory Grove Elementary School in Dunlap or Saturday February 22nd at Hopedale Grade School.

The race is the same format as last year which allows each scout to race 10+ times! All Scouts are welcome. You do not need to have raced (or won) in your Pack Derby to attend the district race. Cost is $10. Please register online to guarantee a spot. Walks in are welcome.
The problem is that it's completely against the stated rules. To my knowledge, there was no vote taken. I do know my wife was not notified of any vote, and she has voting rights. As far as I know virtually all packs have ran their races already and selected their district qualifiers.

What is this teaching the scouts? Oh it doesn't matter if you do your best or not and it doesn't matter if you're lazy and didn't race at your pack.. Just come on down and pay your money and you can race a square block against the best cars in the area!

This is just freakin stupid. I understand it's about kids having fun, but it's also about doing your best. Not paying your money.
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by FatSebastian »

I would be interested to hear from Stan since this is in his backyard too, and knowing that Stan advocates for district races being "selective but not too selective".
gman247 wrote:Oh it doesn't matter if you do your best or not and it doesn't matter if you're lazy and didn't race at your pack.. Just come on down and pay your money and you can race a square block against the best cars in the area!
FWIW, some other districts run their races this way. As noted elsewhere, we observed that what naturally happens is that kids do well at the Pack level will enter the District race, while those who do poorly at Pack level tend to not bother with the District race, so it tends to work out to about the same level of participation. It also provides a racing opportunity for a small minority that did not have the chance to compete at the Pack level (e.g., the Pack did not have a derby, the boy missed his derby because he was traveling to his grandmother's funeral, etc.).
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Vitamin K »

I dunno, doesn't bother me. If your car didn't win your pack, you're not gonna win the districts either, unless you have a major tune-up. Just means more slower racers to be eliminated. At the end of the day, the winners are gonna win, regardless of who else is on the track. You don't lose anything by having more cars running. :idk:
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by gman247 »

I agree with not too selective, 4 kids per den (which is what we have been running) is just fine.

Last year at districts, there were what I would guess at least 60 kids just in the tiger den races.

And I agree with the sentiment, but you can't just up and do something like this 2 weeks before districts, after all the packs have selected their qualifiers. This is about teaching kids things. Changing the rules like this after they've already raced and told they've qualified or not sends a horrible message to them.

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they would have sat down after this years districts and decided to do it like this. Well, not nearly as big of a problem anyway. But you just can't do this with 2 weeks to go. It's pretty ridiculous.
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by psycaz »

Usually this kind if change reflects a couple of possibilities. One is that they are concerned about a noticable drop in registrations and fear they aren't going to have a large enough turnout to cover costs.

Second, on top of the first, there may be some thought that the scouts who didn't do well in their respective packs may have learned what went wrong and are able to fix it.

There is almost always a ton of time left in cars due to wheel and axle prep. Car could have been damaged part way through the race, the typical stuff.

Our races district races are now open to all, it's council level that's restricted. I'm ok with that. Your not taking spots from the boys who did well in their packs, you're giving those who didn't a chance to improve and try again.
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by DerbyAddicted »

This is pretty much what our district is doing as well, although there is no charge. From what I understand (and I've heard conflicting stories) is that all cars will run (I assume each lane) and then the times are compiled and the top times for the day are the winner(s). No finals. Rules seem pretty lax, other than no oil and parts must come from an official BSA PWD kit, and fit the track. Also, all weight must be permanently attached (no tape etc)
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Stan Pope »

FatSebastian wrote:I would be interested to hear from Stan since this is in his backyard too, and knowing that Stan advocates for district races being "selective but not too selective".
gman247 wrote:Oh it doesn't matter if you do your best or not and it doesn't matter if you're lazy and didn't race at your pack.. Just come on down and pay your money and you can race a square block against the best cars in the area!
FWIW, some other districts run their races this way. As noted elsewhere, we observed that what naturally happens is that kids do well at the Pack level will enter the District race, while those who do poorly at Pack level tend to not bother with the District race, so it tends to work out to about the same level of participation. It also provides a racing opportunity for a small minority that did not have the chance to compete at the Pack level (e.g., the Pack did not have a derby, the boy missed his derby because he was traveling to his grandmother's funeral, etc.).
Aside from being "traditional", i.e. inherited from past organizers (pre-1985), the 4 qualifiers per rank per pack was justified by a more-or-less national survey of methods and participation that I conducted ca 1990. From that approximately 50 district/council survey, I concluded that participation in the event peaked when between 3 and 4 racers qualified per rank per pack.

The rationale (my interpretation) was that qualification criteria encouraged packs to actually hold races, and, having qualified, most qualifiers would actually participate.

Since event participation is one of the measures of success (i.e. by which the unit serving professional is evaluated), I concluded that participation rate (# participating divided by total pool of Cub Scouts in the district/council) was an important measure.

The down-side of qualification, aside from other factors already mentioned, is that registration comes in by pack, and start to come in only after the pack has held its races and the pack leadership has put its entry together. This means that registrations don't come in early! (My grandson's race was last night, 11 days prior to the district race and another to which I loaned some equipment held their race last Saturday, 14 days prior.) Such a "late registration" peak risks causing panic! And Wotamalo, the smallest district in our Council, almost always has unit serving professionals who are encountering their first district Pinewood Derby!

This is a recipe for PANIC!

"PANIC" is my best guess based on hearing of this notification last night. :(

While I don't expect to see any meaningful difference in this year's participation rate, I would expect it to reduce the participation rate in the future district PWD events.

If I were to recommend any relaxation of the qualification rule, it would be to automatically qualify children of adults who give a half day (at least) to the event operation! In a sense, this would be sometimes allowing parents to "buy their son's way" with service, but it would alleviate one of the main difficulties in recruiting event staff, i.e. not wanting to commit until they knew their son(s) would be participating. That would make the event chairman feel a lot less stressed!

=============

p.s. The event rules do not tell packs how to select their representatives. Unless it changed recently, the packs are not required to hold races in order to select representatives. They could even ask for interested volunteers and, if too many, draw straws! I don't recommend this, but it is an "out" for those leaders who are too unable to even borrow a track and hold an event!
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by FatSebastian »

Stan Pope wrote:...registration comes in by pack, and start to come in only after the pack has held its races.
Makes sense. Are there reasons why the District does not schedule their races a bit later in the season? (As a point of comparison, our local unit typically does not race until March and I know of others nearby that race in late February.)
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Stan Pope »

FatSebastian wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:...registration comes in by pack, and start to come in only after the pack has held its races.
Makes sense. Are there reasons why the District does not schedule their races a bit later in the season? (As a point of comparison, our local unit typically does not race until March and I know of others nearby that race in late February.)
In the (not quite) immortal words of Tevye, "Tradition! Tradition!"

The most probable cause of pack races running later than usual this year is that communication happened later than usual. In fact much of the pre-race planning was a month or so later than the schedule I have recommended (and have done "shoulder taps" for, even though I hold no position in the chain except "supporter"). The probable cause was the withdrawal of last year's chair due to health and work requirement issues. That increased the pressure on the late-replacement chair to get up to speed quickly.

A consideration for schedule is to be earlier than the Webelos Cross-Over into Boy Scouts. Council (National?) continues to push for earlier and earlier cross-over. While rules explicitly say that crossing over doesn't negate their qualification to race ... they are still welcome even if they no longer have blue on their shoulders, it seems that the participation rate for those who have crossed over is lower. (This needs actual study to confirm.)
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by DerbyAddicted »

Another consideration as to why it's earlier than later, is because once March hits, you start to get into camping season (and spring sports) both of which could have a dramatic impact on your attendance.
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Stan Pope »

DerbyAddicted wrote:Another consideration as to why it's earlier than later, is because once March hits, you start to get into camping season (and spring sports) both of which could have a dramatic impact on your attendance.
Yes, Feb is a good "notch month." OTOH, March in central Illinois is often marginal weather for young campers!
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by gman247 »

Thanks Stan and everyone elses input. I fired off what was probably an over-the-top email to a few involved last night after I found out. I wasn't especially rude or anything, but it was lengthy and I was a little heated. I just wish they wouldn't have changed things so last minute is all. If they wanted to change it for next year, great! Maybe everyone could take a few minutes (hours?) to discuss it and look at it from the kids' angle and decide what's best for them.

But less than 2 weeks before raceday, when a lot (most?) have already decided qualifiers and kids have accepted they weren't going to districts (and played with their cars until the wheels have come off), and the qualifiers have gotten all pumped up and proud of their accomplishment.. Only to be told it doesn't matter.

From my own experience as a kid racing at districts (a few decades ago!) and from what I've seen from my own kids and others, the motivating prize for doing well at the pack is a spot at districts, to be able to race on all the tracks there and get a unique patch for their vest. A pack trophy looks cool on the shelf, but what they crave is being proud of the individual merit of the district patch and car stand/plaque they get just for being a qualifier and showing up. Ultimately, it's a confidence thing for them.

I spent 2 hours dealing with tears at the pack race while waiting for the grand champions races from one of my twins who didn't qualify for districts because he wouldn't get to race with his brother at districts again this year. I've finally gotten him to be excited for his brother and to think it's cool to be able to cheer him on from the sidelines. Since he was a Tiger last year and didn't know anything different than success, he also now realizes what an accomplishment he achieved by being the pack champion and coming in 10/15 at the finals in district. He doesn't take it for granted.

What message would he receive if I now told him, oh it's ok, they're going to let everyone race anyway..

I dunno.. It just reeks.
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Scrollsawer »

Hey, at least you have a District race to participate in. We do not get that opportunity. :shake:

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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by Stan Pope »

Latest word ... passed on by a prior event chair ... I think that I have it correct ... Not only can any Cub in the district participate in the Wotamalo PWD, but so also may any Cub in one of the adjoining districts ... and vice-versa! There will be some confusion when Wotamalo Cubs go the the site in the other district to participate in the Wotamalo PWD ... and vice-versa. And never mind that they have distinctive build rules!

As it turns out, the notice was not from a newbie unit serving professional as I had guessed, but one who has been around the council for more than a year and should be aware of the Wotamalo dynamic and that what appears to be a Panic Reaction to "not enough units registering" is probably not warranted. :( Whether unit contact occurred is unknown ... at least the unit leader who is chairing the event was not contacted.

Arghhhhh!!!!!

I really hope that some rational explanation comes forth. So far several phones are ringing off the hook, and the responsible professional has reportedly turned off his telephone.

Wish us luck... for the first year in a long time, we will need it!
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Re: Wotamalo District 2014 just went to [junk]...

Post by gman247 »

Thanks Stan. I did know that the current district chair was not asked or notified before the decision came about. He said the decision totally came down from the council. He was just as shocked as I was when he got the email. He was one of the ones who I CC'd on my email response, though I wasn't really directing my frustration at him since the email appeared to come from the council. I definitely appreciate his return email to me.

I am rather disappointed that the one responsible for the fiasco has up and decided to ignore the blowback he created.

I feel sorry for the Heartland district too. Their build rules are more stringent than Wotamalo's. It seems they're not allowed to move the front wheels forward at all, and not allowed to use liquid lubricants as this year's Wotamalo's rules appear to allow.

What a mess. :(
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