DerbyWorks Wheel Selection Help

[block-o-wood]

Hi Folks:

Can you help me select the best DerbyWorx wheels for the job? I just got our pack's new PWD rules for 2009. The section on wheels is as follows.

3. WHEELS AND AXLES
a. Only the official Scout Grand Prix wheels and axles can be used. Wheels must have "Official B.S.A." stamped on the inside of the wheel rim.
b. Wheels can be sanded to remove surface imperfections, but the surface that touches the track must be left flat and at least 1/4 wide".
c. Wheel bearings, washers or bushings are prohibited.
d. The car shall not ride on any type of springs.
e. The car must be free-wheeling with no starting device or other propulsion.
f. The wheel base location of the car may be adjusted as long as you still meet the maximum length, width, height, and clearance specifications.
g. Hubcaps or similar items used to keep the wheels lubricated are prohibited.
h. Spoke Wheels and/or modified wheels are prohibited.

In your opinion, which would be the fastest legal Derby Worx wheels?

Thanks

[Stan Pope]

The rule as quoted has no specification regarding treatment of interior faces except the area of the lettering, which means that those faces may be "worked" to your heart's content. (But, why would you buy finished wheels and deprive your youngster of working those wheels himself?)

Now, most rules include a section that says, in effect, that the rules mean what the inspection team and, ultimately, the chairman says that they mean, regardless of what the written word actually says. So, if you push the envelope of interpretation to the edge of the written word, you may find yourself crosswise with this last proviso. So, be prepared to make race day adjustments.

[sporty]

Block o wood.

B, has me asking, the 1/4 inch wide ?


you might be able to get buy with the
Our Pro Inertia-Lites .

the Pro-Stock wheels also would work 4 you.

You can always try and do them yourself with your child also. if you have the tools.

Buying prepped wheels does not always make you fast, its everything else you learn that will bring about speed.

While just tonight, me and my g/f's son were sanding away on those new colored wheels.

We really need to try the pro wheel shaver.

Sporty

[block-o-wood]

Hey Stan and sporty...

Thank you both so much for your response!!!

I was considering the Pro Inertia-Lites. The only thing that concerned me was the wording of rule "h"... "Spoke Wheels and/or modified wheels are prohibited."

Its not clear what they mean by "modified". Your thoughts?

Stan, I agree with your point. The only reason I buy the wheels is that we don't have the tools/expertise to perform serious and accurate wheel modifications. My youngster gets plenty fun from shaping/painting the body, polishing axles, etc... This is a project we do together and he does the bulk of the work (as intended). I am no means a win at all cost dad. However, I do want to take full advantage of everything the rules will allow.

That brings me back to the wheel selection dilemma... will Pro Inertia-Lites work?

Should I contact the derby organizer and get clarification... or is that opening a can of worms that needs to be kept closed?

Thanks!!!

[block-o-wood]

Block o wood.

B, has me asking, the 1/4 inch wide ?

Sporty

I just caught that... So, the standard BSA wheel tread width is 1/3 in (0.310") right? So, I can decrease the tread width a little. Is that a good idea?

Thanks

[PWD_addict]

Definitely contacted the Derby organizer to ask him specifically what the "no modified" wheels means.

I agree with you--you need to take advantage of the rules. I suspect they were specifically written to either allow or disallow certain things. You don't want your son to be at a disadvantage from the get-go.

There's also the challenge that the organizer may say that what you want to do is illegal, and then not really inspect for that and others "get away" with it. So, if he says that something is illegal, ask him/her if all other cars will be inspected to make sure they are not using "illegal" wheels.

This is another example of why specific rules are needed. Ours are very specific about who can work on the wheels and what is allowed to be done.

Wheels and Axles: Wheels and axles must be the ones furnished in the official kits. BSA Grand
Prix Pinewood Derby wheels and axles that have been altered (smoothed, machined, polished,
etc.) and re-sold by third parties are not allowed. All work on wheels and axles must be performed
by the Scout or adult leader. Cars using illegal wheels or axles will be disqualified. Axles may not
be coated to reduce friction or increase diameter. Dry lubricant is not considered a coating as
specified in the “Lubricants” section. No washers, bushings, bearings or springs are allowed.
Wheels may be sanded to remove the flashing only. While the tread surface may be smoothed,
any alteration to the tread width, thickness, or shape is not allowed. Partial reductions to the
wheel diameter by shaving are allowed solely for the purpose of “truing” up the diameter of the
wheel (making it more “round”). Lathes may not be used on a wheel. If the little bumps that are
along the outer diameter of the wheel are gone, the tread thickness has been reduced too much
and the wheel is illegal (see Figure 2). No coverings (e.g. hubcaps) are allowed on the external
hub side of the wheels as this would prevent inspection of the axles and wheel hubs.

[gpraceman]

h. Spoke Wheels and/or modified wheels are prohibited.

This seems to me to preclude any aftermarket wheels (any that have been lathed, that is).

When in doubt, get clarification (and try to get it in writing).

[ohiofitter]

3. WHEELS AND AXLES
a. Only the official Scout Grand Prix wheels and axles can be used. Wheels must have "Official B.S.A." stamped on the inside of the wheel rim.

b. Wheels can be sanded to remove surface imperfections, but the surface that touches the track must be left flat and at least 1/4 wide".

h. Spoke Wheels and/or modified wheels are prohibited.

I'm sorry but who ever wrote these rules ain't the brightest bulb in the light socket....Rule A)...says as long as the wheel has the original stamp it can be use..hence making aftermarket wheel legal............for dads that dont have the tools or know how or just want a good wheel or one who just wants to win at any cost..not saying to offend anyone.......Part B) say you can sand the tread surface to make smooth....but maybe put in a groove within the wheel...because the over all width won't be modified.But then PART H)...makes this a illegal process because sanding the tread is a modification of the wheel...........So I concur make the PWD chair person make a set of rules that doesn't conflict there own self


The way the Rule should read is '

The four wheels that come in a official Scout Grand Prix either passed out at your pack meeting or bought from a council store kit shall be used....The only modification allowed to be done is sanding to remove surface imperfections

[GravityRacer]

Someone here wrote some rules that took 30+ pages to bring down the cheating, but I'm too lazy to go look for it. You might want to though, because there are people who will try to circumvent even that simple a rule, somehow.

[Stan Pope]

I was considering the Pro Inertia-Lites. The only thing that concerned me was the wording of rule "h"... "Spoke Wheels and/or modified wheels are prohibited."

Its not clear what they mean by "modified". Your thoughts?

"Modified" wheels is what you get after you smooth out the tread! Ergo, you can't smooth out the tread! But the rules say (or imply) that you can smooth out the tread.

So ...

Should I contact the derby organizer and get clarification... or is that opening a can of worms that needs to be kept closed?

you have a choice ... guess what they mean and go to inspection ready to bring into compliance with whatever interpretation they cite at the time, or ask ahead of time to reduce the amount of change needed to bring into compliance.

Be sure to ask the right person! (That would be the person who decides the final appeal on race day.)

[block-o-wood]

OK... I sent an email to the derby chairman for clarification. This way I will have the response in writing. I will let you know what his answer is. Anything else that you think I should ask him?

Thanks

[Bathtub]

Just curious... What did the derby chair say? When I started reading the rules I thought... OMG that's our district.. But maybe not.