Eligibility

General race coordinator discussions.
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Husker
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote:Scouts who choose another activity over the Derby are the ones who are not allowed proxies.
I don't know how you could ever police that. What's an acceptable activity that would allow a proxy? So far illness and a death in the family are acceptable. Family reunion? Dentist appointment? What do you tell a Scout whose family is a hardship case, has one car, lives 50 miles from the event and the Dad has to work that day?

How about this: A scout's parent calls him in sick. His den buddy runs his car for him. The car wins the Tiger group and then goes on to win the District race. Woohoo! You award the trophy and his name is printed in the newspaper. And as you're reading the Derby results in the newspaper, you see the "sick" Scout's picture on the opposite page. You read that he drove in the winning run at the same time he won the District race. Are you going to strip him of the trophy?

As I told my crew, our goal is inclusion. If the car is there, it runs.
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Re: Eligibility

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Husker wrote: As I told my crew, our goal is inclusion. If the car is there, it runs.
Do you allow eBay cars?
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote:Do you allow eBay cars?
Again, I don't know can you can police that. So if it passes inspection, it runs.
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Re: Eligibility

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Jungle Jim wrote:Our rules have gotten tweaked just about every year. They must be pretty good tweaks too when you figure our Council comes home with more awards then the next 2 combined at a State race.
Jungle Jim,
What part of Ohio are you from? This is my son's last year as a cubscout and I never knew there was a state race past our council race here in Ohio. Could be fun.
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote:Do you allow eBay cars?
You can buy PW cars on ebay? :wink:
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Re: Eligibility

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Wooden Wonder wrote:
Jungle Jim wrote:Our rules have gotten tweaked just about every year. They must be pretty good tweaks too when you figure our Council comes home with more awards then the next 2 combined at a State race.
Jungle Jim,
What part of Ohio are you from? This is my son's last year as a cubscout and I never knew there was a state race past our council race here in Ohio. Could be fun.
The race is called the "All Ohio Pinewood Derby". It's held at the Ohio State Fair. Probably doing a search on the web will find more specific info for ya.
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Re: Eligibility

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Jungle Jim wrote:
Wooden Wonder wrote: Jungle Jim,
What part of Ohio are you from? This is my son's last year as a cubscout and I never knew there was a state race past our council race here in Ohio. Could be fun.
The race is called the "All Ohio Pinewood Derby". It's held at the Ohio State Fair. Probably doing a search on the web will find more specific info for ya.
NW Ohio
Hey, I know of that race (we have been there the last 3 years but never done any good) I thought you meant a scout related race. You must be from our council, because a boy from our council has won it the last 2 years. Other than that I don't know how to find out what council the other winners are from. Last year a girl was 3rd overall, if my memory serves me correctly.
Hope to see you there this year!
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Re: Eligibility

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Husker wrote: Again, I don't know can you can police that. So if it passes inspection, it runs.
I agree with you here. Unfortunately we had this problem this past year. We found out after the race that they had purchased the car on EBay. It was their last year in scouts and they really wanted to beat another individual who usually win. (btw... they still only got 3rd)

I personnal feel that the only thing they taught their son was that he could buy a trophy..not that hard work and dedication can pay off.

Our Pack and district rules state that you can not purchase a precut finished car. We do allow precut cars that they boy and parent finish together. But as you said, how can you police the problem.
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Re: Eligibility

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pwdxtreme wrote:Our Pack and district rules state that you can not purchase a precut finished car. We do allow precut cars that they boy and parent finish together. But as you said, how can you police the problem.
Really, you cannot. When a car passes inspection, even one that "shouldn't", you let it race and have your own conscience clean.
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Re: Eligibility

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Husker wrote:
Cory wrote:Do you allow eBay cars?
Again, I don't know can you can police that. So if it passes inspection, it runs.
I'll rephrase my question. Are eBay cars against your rules?
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote:I'll rephrase my question. Are eBay cars against your rules?
Your question needs a little bit of qualifying.

Paraphrasing one of many rules: The scout can only enter a car that he built new that year from an official kit which includes the body, wheels and axles from said kit.

Now I suppose you could buy an official kit - that would require being built - from ebay, but i've never seen one there (and likely never will).
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote:
Husker wrote: Again, I don't know can you can police that. So if it passes inspection, it runs.
I'll rephrase my question. Are eBay cars against your rules?
I had to reread the rules and as they written, an ebay would be legal. These two rules that might apply but certainly don't exclude eBay cars.

2. Only the Official BSA Pinewood Derby Kit is allowed. Substitute wheels, kits or axles are not allowed.
3. Each car entered must be a 2005 built car. Cars built and raced in past years Pinewood Derbies are not allowed.


I suppose we should address the issue more directly. I can already see a rule that can't be enforced and strictly relies on good faith of the Scout('s parents).
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Re: Eligibility

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Jungle Jim wrote:Your question needs a little bit of qualifying.
Agreed. I probably should have written "pre-built eBay cars" or something more precise. I guess this illustrates one of the major challenges of rule-writing -- being concise and precise at the same time.
Husker wrote:I suppose we should address the issue more directly. I can already see a rule that can't be enforced and strictly relies on good faith of the Scout('s parents).
Stealing automobiles is against the law, yet car theft is not effectively policed in most parts of the world. Many, if not most, car thefts are never solved and the perpetrators are never punished.

I don't believe that strict enforcibility should be a necessary condition for a PWD rule. If a PWD committee agrees that something is "wrong" -- e.g., a pre-built eBay car -- then it should be against the rules.

Now back to the original point -- proxy drivers for absent kids. My committee believes that they should be allowed only under certain circumstances. Yes, it might be difficult to enforce that with 100% effectiveness. But that is our opinion, so that is our rule.
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Re: Eligibility

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Cory wrote: Now back to the original point -- proxy drivers for absent kids. My committee believes that they should be allowed only under certain circumstances. Yes, it might be difficult to enforce that with 100% effectiveness. But that is our opinion, so that is our rule.
I most certainly agree with limiting the circumstances in which this is allowed.
1. At the pack race, the Scout must be present with the car he is racing. No substitutes here.
2. A scout who has advanced to a Distrist race can forfeit his place to the next lower place Scout (i.e. 1st thru 3rd place driver cant go, so the 4th place attends in his spot) from his Pack in the same rank group. That Scout must bring his own car that he raced in the same Pack race where he finished lower (i.e. 4th).
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Re: Eligibility

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Jungle Jim wrote:
Cory wrote: Now back to the original point -- proxy drivers for absent kids. My committee believes that they should be allowed only under certain circumstances. Yes, it might be difficult to enforce that with 100% effectiveness. But that is our opinion, so that is our rule.
I most certainly agree with limiting the circumstances in which this is allowed.
1. At the pack race, the Scout must be present with the car he is racing. No substitutes here.
2. A scout who has advanced to a Distrist race can forfeit his place to the next lower place Scout (i.e. 1st thru 3rd place driver cant go, so the 4th place attends in his spot) from his Pack in the same rank group. That Scout must bring his own car that he raced in the same Pack race where he finished lower (i.e. 4th).
Almost forgot. No substitutes at the Council race.
Jungle Jim
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