Eligibility

General race coordinator discussions.
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Cory
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Eligibility

Post by Cory »

One of the local districts is having a discussion about eligibility requirements for the upcoming District races, to which the top two finishers from each Pack are invited.

The bones of contention are the following rules, which I have paraphrased below:

* Invitation is extended to the winning Scout, not the winning car. Scout is allowed to build a new car if he wants, or tune his Pack car for the District track. A Scout is expected to attend to compete.

* If the Scout has valid reason for being absent, someone else may race his car for him. Valid includes things like "has the flu", "has to attend grandmother's funeral", etc. Valid does not include things like "soccer game", "friend's birthday party", etc.

A related rule states that if a top finisher is unable to attend or chooses not to atttend then the invitation goes to the next highest finisher, so that the Pack can still be represented.

So the questions I have for everyone are do you agree or disagree with the above rules and how do you do it at your District or similar level races?
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Sylvar »

Our district race is open to all scouts...but we are a small rural district.

Personally I have no problem with the first. Although I think the invite should be extended to the top 3 finishers in the pack.

The second rule needs to go though. The scout MUST be present to race...no exceptions. Staging the car is part of the race.

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Re: Eligibility

Post by DMWOOD »

Last year our District took the top two scouts from each group in the Pack(Tiger, Wolf, Bear & Webelos). In our area all scouts race their own car so we handeled it like the later statement. If someone could not race at the District event then the next person in that group was invited to take their place. This worked for planning on who would go from our Pack to the District race.

If someone had a last minute conflict then they just did not go to the race. With something last minute there was not time to get another scout to take their place. Maybe that is what they are trying to do here.
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Cory
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Cory »

DMWOOD wrote:If someone had a last minute conflict then they just did not go to the race. With something last minute there was not time to get another scout to take their place. Maybe that is what they are trying to do here.
Maybe. I also think that another purpose of the rule is complete participation.

I think they want this: Scout builds car. Scout races car.

And not this: Scout builds car. Scout watches Sponge Bob. Friend races car.

Obviously, you need to draw a line somewhere. The disagreement is over where the line is drawn. Specifically, on which side of the line should a soccer game be?

And even though this is not the issue, please let me clarify: Top two Scouts per Rank from each Pack are invited, so up to ten Scouts from each Pack might compete. I was not clear at all on that.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by gpraceman »

Cory wrote:Obviously, you need to draw a line somewhere. The disagreement is over where the line is drawn. Specifically, on which side of the line should a soccer game be?
To me, when it comes to soccer/baseball/hockey/etc. games the scout needs to make a choice at which activity to participate in. Is the game more important to them or is the race? I would not allow a proxy in this case.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Stan Pope »

The role of the owner/driver during the competition may be critical in the decision. Is the owner/driver a participant or a spectator? In some areas, once the car has been brought to the race site, only staff handles the car. The scout touches it for the last time (until racing is over) sometime during registration/inspection. In other areas, only the owner/driver touches the car for the duration of inspection and racing.

If the owner/driver is a participant, then his participation (and, therefore, his attendance) is important, and he must make the choice. In this case, a substitute driver for the owner's car is really not appropriate, either, and the rule should be considered for revision.

If the owner/driver is a spectator, then his attendance as a spectator has (little or) no bearing on the race results. The rule requiring his attendance seems to serve no purpose and should be considered for revision.
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Cory
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Cory »

Stan Pope wrote:The role of the owner/driver during the competition may be critical in the decision. Is the owner/driver a participant or a spectator?
Good point.

I double-checked this District's rules and it is clear that the Scouts will be staging their own cars, so they are participants.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Stan Pope »

Game ... set ... match!
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Re: Eligibility

Post by terryep »

If your race has a sponser who presents the trophies it is good if the actual winners are present to get in the pictures. If the sponser can show up so should the cub, and in uniform.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by pwdarchitect »

I would be careful with this. My scout was at the District race and then became ill and had to go home because of his illness. I would make a provision in the rule that if the scout becomes ill, heaven forbid, then the racer's car should be allowed to continue until such time as the race is over. Our District does invite all of the cub scouts to attend not just the top few from each pack. Of course the kids do not get to stage the cars because of the large number of racers (+200 entries). Please be mindful of the Scout who has a medical or some other condition that will not allow them to stay at the race for the entire length of time.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Cory »

pwdarchitect wrote:I would be careful with this. My scout was at the District race and then became ill and had to go home because of his illness. I would make a provision in the rule that if the scout becomes ill, heaven forbid, then the racer's car should be allowed to continue until such time as the race is over.
An ill scout is allowed a proxy driver, even if he becomes ill the day before and never comes to the Derby.

Scouts who choose another activity over the Derby are the ones who are not allowed proxies.
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Cory
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Cory »

terryep wrote: If the sponser can show up so should the cub, and in uniform.
Terry
Well said, I like that one!
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Re: Eligibility

Post by GoneFission »

terryep wrote:If your race has a sponser who presents the trophies it is good if the actual winners are present to get in the pictures. If the sponser can show up so should the cub, and in uniform.
Terry
Amen, and I don't care if there is a sponsor or not. My pack and district would make an exception for illness, but little else. You want to encourage all the participation you can, but if the boys go somewhere else they don't race as proxies. Even if they don't stage the cars, they should be there for what should be their handiwork.

And our district expectation is you bring the car what qualified ya. I know it's not written down because I helped revise our District rules last year.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Jungle Jim »

GoneFission wrote:
And our district expectation is you bring the car what qualified ya. I know it's not written down because I helped revise our District rules last year.
Our rules have gotten tweaked just about every year. They must be pretty good tweaks too when you figure our Council comes home with more awards then the next 2 combined at a State race.
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Re: Eligibility

Post by Tomcat14 »

Our district always takes the top 3 from each pack. If a Scout can't make it, he misses out. All winners have to be present to receive their trophy.
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