Totally different track at district race than normal tracks

[speed demon 64]

I have had two sons that have been very sucsessful in their pinewood derby races winning a total of 9 out of 10 pack races. This year the district race had a totally different new track from a very large pack that had no center guide strip, only outer rails to keep the cars in their lanes. From very detailed testing of our cars from previous years, this years car was with out any doubt my sons fastest ever. In his heat race the car that beat him was from the same pack that had the new track. The district race usually always has at least 75 cars and 11 heats total. The best that my sons have finished at district is third place 3 times. This year with their fasted car ever we finished third in the heat race. His car went almost out of control down the track, totally the opposite of down the pack race track that has the traditional center guide strip. I don't want to seem like a big whinner or complainer but I feel like we were ripped off along with many other racers. Should we request that they bring back the old district track next year for fairness? P.S. The boy that won overall was the winner from our heat on his own packs track. How many pack race tracks have no center guide strips anyway? Please give me some opinions here!!!!!

[Stan Pope]

speed demon 64, I think that there are some problems in your district race setup. Here's why I think so:

First, the most important purpose for district or council races is to invigorate racing within each pack. This is best done by making the pack races meaningful. (No, the purpose of district racing isn't really to see who has the fastest car in the district ... it is to get youngsters and parents working together and learning by using a "competitive environment"!)

For instance, racers should need to perform well to advance to the district/council races. Something reasonable, though. Top 3 in the pack is way too selective ... participation is hurt. Based on a survey that I did a few years ago, district race participation is maximized if district racing is by grade AND each unit can send from 3 to 5 racers in each grade.

Secondly, racers in the pack races should be demonstrating their ability to perform well at the district races. This means that pack and district track parameters should be simlar. Racer design is affected by the track on which it is to excel. If an unusual track is used at district, but your pack uses a distinctly different track, then racers that would perform well on the district track may not run well enough to qualify on the pack's track. Cars that are designed to qualify in the unit races will be at a disadvantage at the district races.

Is it "unfair"? Dunno. I kinda think so.

Is it "counterproductive"? Absolutely!

So, what do you do to make it "productive?" Should the units buy tracks to match the district track? Or should the district track be selected from among the predominant unit tracks? (This is a rhetorical qustion. I think that the two-part asnwer is obvious!)

[DMWOOD]

The type of track guides you describe don't seem like they would work well with the BSA wheels because they have the raised lettering on the outside. Wheels with out raised letters would probably work better with these guides. If the rules don't allow this then I don't have any good answers.

[Buckeye]

Sometimes I think the people who make decissions at the District level have lost touch with the local unit level. I was told that the distircit people look for someone to volunteer to take on the derby when I inquired about how our pack could host the district derby. The reason being is it was one less thing they had to worry about. In my opinion the Pinewood Derby does more to keep the boys interested and excited about Cub Scouts than any other single event done during the scouting year. Perhaps the district execs should worry a little more about the District derby.
Last year our district race was held on a 42 foot aluminum Best track. Needless to say alot of parents were less than excited to see that track when they arrived. Most packs have a 32 foot wood track similar to the Piantedosi track. The pack running it didn't have the timer working or know how to install the stop section. They tried to match up the wheel surface rather than the center strip. On the Best track the wheel surface drops at the finish and the car slides on the center strip while the wheels are suspended in air. So the center strip on their setup was about 3/8" high after the finish line. Their solution was to throw a blanket over the incorectly installed joint. Needless to say, cars were crashing and bouncing off the blanket. Several cars were unable to continue becasue of damage. When I questioned an official about the situation he said " would you rather have the cars hitting the raised metal center section?"
I guess my point is we don't live in a perfect world and maybe you could get your pack to volunteer for nest year. This year the race will be held on a 32' wood 3 lane track, so some progress has been made. They are only running the cars once in each lane for a total of 3 races for each boy. The top 3 will win based on time. When I asked why only 3 races? I was basically told if it ain't broke why fix it. I guess most people don't look at the derby like we do. The good news is I think my pack will host districts next year. We have the luxury of either 2 four lane or 1 eight lane(it's convertible) Piantedosi 32 foot tracks.

[Tomcat14]

When my kids were in scouts, our district was the same way. Every year at the January Roundtable they would ask for a pack to volunteer to host the Pinewod Derby. I volunteered last year and received several compliments on how smoothly everything ran. A little off topic here, but I was shocked by the number of people who brought cars that wouldn't pass inspection. The rules that our pack used were the same rules the district had used for years. Either other packs weren't using the same rules, or didn't enforce the rules.

I strongly agree that DE's should do more to promote Pinewood Derby.

[FRANKLIN WHALEY]

Our church uses a track with no center rail. Our state race uses a track with center rails. Both are 32' wooden and as far as I can tell the cars will run the same on both. All the cars my group entered in state did. I was not involved in the purchase of this track. And I have thought about putting rails on it just to have it more like the one used at state. But since the performance difference is not detectable to us, we have decided to leave it like it is. If we ever buy a new track I will recommend center rails. But if a car is running straight it shouldn't hit the outter rail any more often than it hits a center rail track. However, I definitely agree that the same tracks should be used in advanced levels as much as possible.

[clemsontigerfanatic]

I have had two sons that have been very sucsessful in their pinewood derby races winning a total of 9 out of 10 pack races. This year the district race had a totally different new track from a very large pack that had no center guide strip, only outer rails to keep the cars in their lanes. From very detailed testing of our cars from previous years, this years car was with out any doubt my sons fastest ever. In his heat race the car that beat him was from the same pack that had the new track. The district race usually always has at least 75 cars and 11 heats total. The best that my sons have finished at district is third place 3 times. This year with their fasted car ever we finished third in the heat race. His car went almost out of control down the track, totally the opposite of down the pack race track that has the traditional center guide strip. I don't want to seem like a big whinner or complainer but I feel like we were ripped off along with many other racers. Should we request that they bring back the old district track next year for fairness? P.S. The boy that won overall was the winner from our heat on his own packs track. How many pack race tracks have no center guide strips anyway? Please give me some opinions here!!!!!

Suprised that a District Race would not have the center rail. We have a projection screen with a 3 lane 32 ft wooden track at our's. Speakers / music. They show the times and the up coming cars for the next race .
Makes a nice show for all the kids that worked hard enough to make it there.

I can understand District 's with a longer track than the Packs although I perfer the same length. The long tracks are cool but few Packs have the extra money.

In the same way I can understand Packs not having a center rail, but a District. Why did they switch? more lanes/ timer/ newness.

[WarpSpeedINC]

I thought that the BSA specs call for a center guided design. I've seen those tracks, inexpensive, but to a purist, not right.
I think that different materials (aluminum, plastic, ect..) is ok, but they should still be required to be a "traditional style", especialy at the upper levels of competition.
Just our cent and a half's worth,
Warp Speed Inc.

[Stan Pope]

Like the "rules in the box", the sample track design (from the Leader's How To Book?) is a suggestion about how a local pack may conduct its program.

That said, most packs will follow the suggestions from the national program.

I strongly believe that pack and district (or council) racing should stay as consistent as possible. It helps make the pack racing important.

[Jungle Jim]

speed demon 64 -
I wouldn't say your whining, just venting. District and Council races can become heated affairs, but they shouldn't.
Stan -
I hope that no Districts are still asking for only the top 3 from each Pack . Our Council and District rules have been top 3 from each rank and we've always had excellent turnouts, as this type of selection being superior you've noted.

And yes, some uniformity in track design is neccesary. Without it CHAOS!!!

[Stan Pope]

Stan -
I hope that no Districts are still asking for only the top 3 from each Pack . Our Council and District rules have been top 3 from each rank and we've always had excellent turnouts, as this type of selection being superior you've noted.

And yes, some uniformity in track design is neccesary. Without it CHAOS!!!

There are still some who take the top N from the pack (not by grade) for their council races ... my grandsons live in such a council. It appears that their district does not have races.

I think that district and council events should be geared to serve as many scouts as possible. So, district/council derby participation criteria should be structured not to reward the best racers but to maximize participation. Contrary to intuition, participation does not maximize by allowing everyong to participate! Rather, it maximizes by being somewhat restrictive, such as top 3 or 4 per grade per pack!

Regarding "CHAOS" ... that is a bit of an overstatement ... but it does make it difficult for a pack to send the cars that are most likely to win!

[Jungle Jim]

Regarding "CHAOS" ... that is a bit of an overstatement ... but it does make it difficult for a pack to send the cars that are most likely to win!

Well I guess when compared to how hectic a big race can get, you right.