"Composites Derby"
"Composites Derby"
This might fly in the face of tradition, but i'd like to bounce this idea off and see what some other thoughts are:
The Pinewood Derby was invented in the '50's, before alot of the new composite materials like foam, fiberglass, and epoxy were readily available.
How about bringing the cubs(and/or the older scouts) into the Modern Era, and having a "Composites" Derby? Urethane Foam is alot easier and quicker to shape than wood, and doesn't require any special tools. Polyester Resin and fiberglass are not that difficult to work with, although epoxy can be a pain. You can put pigment into the resins, so no painting required. I know from other posts that some folks are strengthening their wood cars with resin already.
Am I crazy or is this just my surfboard-building background talking?
The Pinewood Derby was invented in the '50's, before alot of the new composite materials like foam, fiberglass, and epoxy were readily available.
How about bringing the cubs(and/or the older scouts) into the Modern Era, and having a "Composites" Derby? Urethane Foam is alot easier and quicker to shape than wood, and doesn't require any special tools. Polyester Resin and fiberglass are not that difficult to work with, although epoxy can be a pain. You can put pigment into the resins, so no painting required. I know from other posts that some folks are strengthening their wood cars with resin already.
Am I crazy or is this just my surfboard-building background talking?
Re: "Composites Derby"
I have seen some of the special needs kits that have bodies made from some type of easily sanded foam.
The biggest challenge is going to be material safety concerns since this starts with really young kids.
I would think that a composite derby would be great for Boy Scout age youth. They could also pick up some more of the science of competition.
Another challenge will be changing tradition. I think that the way to attempt this is to start with older youth and see how it goes. It would bre a great way to have fun for older kids and wouldn't threaten the Cub Scout tradition.
How about some one from other youth groups? WIRL Composite?
The biggest challenge is going to be material safety concerns since this starts with really young kids.
I would think that a composite derby would be great for Boy Scout age youth. They could also pick up some more of the science of competition.
Another challenge will be changing tradition. I think that the way to attempt this is to start with older youth and see how it goes. It would bre a great way to have fun for older kids and wouldn't threaten the Cub Scout tradition.
How about some one from other youth groups? WIRL Composite?
Mr. Slick says: Honey, I am doing this for the kids, not myself.
- Pinewood Daddy
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Re: "Composites Derby"
I'v got some 1-3/4" thick blocks of oak, walnut, mahogany, and 32 ply plywood (lock sample blocks). I think making a few cars out of these heavy woods with just a little stain and polyurethane would look cool!! 2 blocks of stained wood connected by a piece of Lexan would be cool also. Or better, a block of cut and polished Lexan with the weights vsible inside. Who's got a laser machine that can etch a PWD scene inside of the Lexan car (you've seen those paperweights)!!
I think a new WIRL division is required for cars made out of anything but pine. Same dimensions and weight. Can you picture some of Warp's cars made of carbon fiber??
Come on!! Who's got too much time on their hands and can build the first composite or non-wood car!!
I think it's time for my medication.
I think a new WIRL division is required for cars made out of anything but pine. Same dimensions and weight. Can you picture some of Warp's cars made of carbon fiber??
Come on!! Who's got too much time on their hands and can build the first composite or non-wood car!!
I think it's time for my medication.
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- Master Pine Head
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Re: "Composites Derby"
This is a GREAT Idea!
Modern composites are a more relevant media for kids to work with in today's day & age. I like tradition as much as the next guy & I LOVE the smell of Pine. But what value does working with Pine teach the Boys if this is all they are permitted to work with?
A friend gave us slabs of Teak, Maple & Mahogany to play with after Stephen's Pine body split. But that's all we can do is play. We instead resorted to reorienting the grain at the axle mounts for strength in his radical design. But we could have had some real fun learning if the rules weren't so antiquated & restrictive.
Imagine using foam with a carbon fiber skin? Even a composite fiber reinforced balsa car would permit extensive shaping, ideal weigh placement, & still challenge the strength-in-design engineering skills that all modern productions require today & will into the future.
Is Texas monitoring this forum????
If Scouting is to remain relevant (enrollment doesn't suggest this to be the current case) then the program is going to need to move forward or we're going to keep shrinking.
Modern composites are a more relevant media for kids to work with in today's day & age. I like tradition as much as the next guy & I LOVE the smell of Pine. But what value does working with Pine teach the Boys if this is all they are permitted to work with?
A friend gave us slabs of Teak, Maple & Mahogany to play with after Stephen's Pine body split. But that's all we can do is play. We instead resorted to reorienting the grain at the axle mounts for strength in his radical design. But we could have had some real fun learning if the rules weren't so antiquated & restrictive.
Imagine using foam with a carbon fiber skin? Even a composite fiber reinforced balsa car would permit extensive shaping, ideal weigh placement, & still challenge the strength-in-design engineering skills that all modern productions require today & will into the future.
Is Texas monitoring this forum????
If Scouting is to remain relevant (enrollment doesn't suggest this to be the current case) then the program is going to need to move forward or we're going to keep shrinking.
The man who stands tallest is the man who bends to help a child.
Re: "Composites Derby"
Mr Slick, I agree with your comments about safety and instead focusing that type of event for the older youth. Its hard to imagine an 8 year old taking the time to put on a dustmask and rubber gloves! Heck, I dont even take the time to do that myself half the time!
Im proposing such a Derby for the older scouts in my church at our next scout committee meeting. Its so hard to get the older youth motivated, it seems their interests develop in other areas after they hit 12. I'd imagine an outlaw derby of some sort would perk their interest, though.
I promised my daughter I'd make her a car after my son's derby which was last night. I'm going to experiment with the foam and fiberglass, attached to a rail car. I'll post a blog when its done. Its an exact replica of my sons car(which is what she wanted). It only took about 15 minutes to shape and sand to perfection with urethane foam.
A lexan car sounds cool! I don't have the techno for that, though.
Im proposing such a Derby for the older scouts in my church at our next scout committee meeting. Its so hard to get the older youth motivated, it seems their interests develop in other areas after they hit 12. I'd imagine an outlaw derby of some sort would perk their interest, though.
I promised my daughter I'd make her a car after my son's derby which was last night. I'm going to experiment with the foam and fiberglass, attached to a rail car. I'll post a blog when its done. Its an exact replica of my sons car(which is what she wanted). It only took about 15 minutes to shape and sand to perfection with urethane foam.
A lexan car sounds cool! I don't have the techno for that, though.
- Stan Pope
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Re: "Composites Derby"
It seems to me that exclusion of non pine woods is a purely local rules interpretation. We at the local packs/districts/councils can and should follow National Council's instructions and set PWD rules that fit local needs.Stephen's Dad wrote:Is Texas monitoring this forum????
If Scouting is to remain relevant (enrollment doesn't suggest this to be the current case) then the program is going to need to move forward or we're going to keep shrinking.
I don't think that PWD is the reason that Scouting's percent of TAY has declined. In fact I think that it is one of the reasons that Cub Scouting's percent of TAY vastly exceeds that of the older groups.
I think that there are a lot of reasons for the decline in Scouting's numbers, none of which relate to this forum. And it pains me that fewer and fewer will experience a "meadow crash" or the swager back into base camp during a Philmont trek.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
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- Master Pine Head
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Re: "Composites Derby"
Perhaps a bit off topic, maybe not. "Modernized" building/racing exists with CO2 racing. Somebody posted this site a while back, sorry can't recall who.
http://www.science-of-speed.com/competition.asp?id=90
Check out the showroom for 2005 highschool competition:
http://www.science-of-speed.com/showroom.asp?id=247
http://www.science-of-speed.com/competition.asp?id=90
Check out the showroom for 2005 highschool competition:
http://www.science-of-speed.com/showroom.asp?id=247
Re: "Composites Derby"
Not off topic at all! 65 feet in one second! I'd imagine the race would be just a blur! For older kids, that looks like alot of fun.
I notice the foam is included as a material intended for the building of a prototype. I would toss the wood, fiberglass the foam and use that for the race.
I notice the foam is included as a material intended for the building of a prototype. I would toss the wood, fiberglass the foam and use that for the race.