Small derby - got any advice?

[dermo]

Hello; I'm new to this.

In the last 2 years, I have been Race Coordinator for our Cub Scout pack. It's been relatively easy, but this year, our pack is down to a tiny 13 boys.

In the past, we hired a 4-lane track with an electronic timer; this year, we are going to use a borrowed 2-lane track with mechanical flags.

Does anyone out there have any advice on how best to conduct the races, now that it is a simple head-to-head. In the past, we simply took best times and judged it on that, but obviously that wont work this time.

All help is appreciated.

Dermo

[10X]

I think a 13 car round robin would work well. That would be 78 heats. Give the winning car 2 points & the 2nd place car 1 point. Total points wins.

[Stan Pope]

I think a 13 car round robin would work well. That would be 78 heats. Give the winning car 2 points & the 2nd place car 1 point. Total points wins.

That is a good choice.

You can gen such charts by hand if you are very careful or use http://members.aol.com/standcmr/ppngen.html to gen the charts for you. It is important to keep the number of cars ODD, even if you must insert a bye, i.e. for 12 or 13 racers, run a 13-car chart!

[Go Bubba Go]

I think a 13 car round robin would work well. That would be 78 heats. Give the winning car 2 points & the 2nd place car 1 point. Total points wins.

From my limited understanding with this option, I agree.

BTW be careful not to let the reduced numbers dampen any enthusiasm for the event itself. On the plus side for the remaining boys they will be able to race additional times (12 vs. 4 previously if I understand both methods correctly).

Such a reduction is a cause for concern (and study / corrective action), but it is a concern for the adults to bear.

Good luck and happy racing!

[Teeeman]

Ecourage dads and moms to participate?

Our Pack leadership actually issued a "challenge" last year to all tan shirts to participate

I was the only adult car the year prior, my son won Pack and my car was running right beside his... it got a bullseye painted on our foreheads and folks were out to humble us

We won again last year (both Pack for my son and me in the daddy race).


In your case, I'd even encourage sibling cars in addition to mom and dad...

neighbors even (laughing!).

Or buddy-up with another small Pack?

I like the elimination approach per above posts but my math skills are a bit weak when it comes to efficiency calcs or statistic type reductions.

Stan is good at math though, if he gave you a thumb up, you're golden.

-Terry

[Stan Pope]

On the plus side for the remaining boys they will be able to race additional times (12 vs. 4 previously if I understand both methods correctly).

A 13-car RoundRobin (78 heats) gives each racer 12 heats (78 heats X 2 lanes / 13 cars).

You can also run a Double RoundRobin (156 heats!) with each racer getting 24 heats! That might make for a "too full evening" though. The Double RoundRobin gives each pair of racers two runs against each other, competing once in each lane. The result is a lot of additional time and just a little bit of additional accuracy.

Double Round Robin would make an especially long night for lesser cars. For some boys, 24 straight losses would be too many. Many really don't want absolute proof that their car is the slowest of the bunch! This is where elimination style racing helps a bit. The fastest cars are identified with acceptable precision, but the slower cars are not ranked, or, at least, not ranked with useful precision. A few cars exit during the first elimination round, but never just one car. The problem with elimination style is that you need to assure that each racer gets enough racing to justify having spent time to build his car. Double and Triple Elim just isn't enough! Quintuple Elim is getting there.

There is a "middle ground" that I also like. It involves two stages of racing: Preliminaries using charts such as PPN to select finalists, usually about twice as many finalists as trophies at stake. This can be as many heats per car as your time limits allow and can use PPN, Stearns, etc The goal is to give every racer a good session of racing and to have a group of finalists which includes the fastest cars, i.e. the cars that should get the trophies. Then run the finals with a precision method such as PN or CPN. Since there are vastly fewer cars, the finals will probably not take too long.

As always, you must look first at what your racing results need to do. How do you want to apportion trophies? Overall speed? Speed by rank? etc. Those early decisions will affect your race method choices.

[DerbyAddict]

Use Stan's charts, actually if you DL the the zip file to run locally you can create the charts after all the boys register. Print out the charts so you can keep track of the finish order. Have two people keeping track. Use two judges with two backups (so no one judges their own boy). If you run a lot of races and keep them moving they'll barely notice who is winning and who is not. Have another adult calling the boys to get their cars so the racing moves fast. HAVE THEM STAGE THEIR OWN CARS especially if it hasn't been done that way in the past. They will really be "racing" their cars and have more fun.

Run 'em a lot. The more they run the more fun they'll have. They came to race, right? If you run 10 rounds with 13 boys its 130 races, easily doable in 1 1/2 hours. Scout with the most wins is champ, next highest is 2nd, etc. In case of a tie, award extra trophies or do a run off, best 3 out of 5 (never did like 2 out of 3, 3 out of 5 gives the chance of Boise State/OSU repeat!)

Here is an idea - if you have the time, ask each Scout to bring a friend (Scout age) and build some extra cars for them to run (or have a workshop that day and let 'em build it themselves). After the Scout races have the other boys join in and run another set of races with the "recruits" and let them see how fun Scouting is. You might get a few new ones out of it.

Have a cookout. Race 5 rounds, eat, race 5 more rounds.
Special challenge races, Scouts can challenge anyone to a race.
Now I'm just typing, but you get the idea hopefully.
Most of all, brainstorm with the other adults to come up with ways to make it FUN, FUN, FUN!!!

[Go Bubba Go]

On the plus side for the remaining boys they will be able to race additional times (12 vs. 4 previously if I understand both methods correctly).

A 13-car RoundRobin (78 heats) gives each racer 12 heats (78 heats X 2 lanes / 13 cars).

Hooray, I did that one correctly! I actually have managed to learn something about the whole "Scheduling Methods" topic.

dermo: Ditto from me on Teeeman's comments above about having sibling / Open class races. Ours are Friday night before the "real" derby on Saturday and we have a blast. Also increases the number of "participants" since you are dealing with such a small number of boys.

As an aside, if I can talk him into it our Cubmaster is going to have a "grudge match" with my 5 year old daughter this year. He baaarrreeely (1/2" each time) beat her "tulip car" last year, and I think her Little Mermaid car for this year might get the better of him

[dermo]

Racers!

Thanks you all so much for the advice - the round-robin seems like a decent way to go - 1 point for 2nd, 2 for 1st. When I get to a computer that can read the page, I'll have a go at pulling the scheduler.

I have also suggested a Family Class - this is a purely fun event - prize: bragging rights. So far, I have 8 parents willing to participate. Given that we are located in the Metro Detroit area, I'm expecting some really trendy cars from the dads who work in the auto industry... this act itself might just allow the boys to make their own cars this year(unlike times over the last years when some boys were unfamiliar with their own cars until race day). Oh the joy when a minimally painted, but well balanced car got 2nd last year - 100% scout built.

Again, thanks for the advice! I intend to take photos of the race and will post some on the web when done.

Dermo

[SpinDoctor]

Dermo, what area are you from. It is hard for me to picture a pack with only 13 kids. When we joined our pack it had 80+ but dwindled down to a low of 40 scouts a couple of years ago, but it should be back up to the 70-80 range by next year. We usually get a recruitement of 12 Tigers/year and the occasional wolf/bear.

[dermo]

We are north of Detroit, in the suburbs. Our school is closing at the end of this year, due to the ever-decreasing number of kids in this area. Unfortunately the dwindling school attendance reflects the diminished number of scouts. We too had good-sized packs in past years, but that's a thing of the past.

We are trying to make this final year as much fun as possible for the boys, as the pack itself will join another next year.