Six Lanes vs Three Lanes

[BigSilver]

PWD_addict

Cory,
Last years racing schedule using three lane track:
Tigers: 10 boy’s cars + 1 snail car total = 11 cars First round 22 heats Second round of 7 cars 14 heats
Wolfs: 16 boy’s cars 0 snail = 16 cars First round 32 heats Second round of 7 cars 14 heats
Bears: 15 boy’s cars 0 snails = 15 cars First round 30 heats Second round of 7 cars 14 heats
Webelos: 10 boys cars 0 snails = 10 cars First round 20 heats Second round of 7 cars 14 heats
Grand Championship: 16 cars, 4 from each den First round 32 heats Second round of 7 cars 14 heats
Total cars = 52
Total heats = 206
Start at 7:00am
Finish at 1:00pm

Alternative schedule using six lane track:
Order of cars determined at impound based on arrival time (random)
52 cars, 2 rounds of 52 heats, each car races twice in each lane
Top 7 finishers advance to Grand Championship 14 heats

Den awards assigned by score obtained in initial 2 rounds of 52 heats
Championship awards assigned by final round of 14 heats
Total cars = 52
Total heats = 138

Can this be run in a 2 hour Pack meeting?

Please comment on effectiveness of alternative method.
Den ranking will be less accurate and may require run offs due to point ties.

[gpraceman]

Personally, if you are going to buy a new track, I'd get a 4 lane track. It will give everyone one extra run down the track, compared to a 3 lane track (assuming one run per lane) and it is far cheaper than a 6 lane track. You only have one more car per heat to stage instead of 3, so you can conduct heats faster. A 4 lane track is also easier to store, transport and maintain than one with more lanes. I find it hard to justify having a track with more than 4 lanes.

[BigSilver]

Another hair brained option for six lane track is to run two dens at once using three lanes each. That would provide the following heats given the original schedule

Tiger den lanes 1,2,3 22 heats + 14 heats

Wolf den lanes 4,5,6 32 heats + 14 heats

Run together yields 32 combined heats + 14 combined heats

Bear den lanes 1,2,3 30 heats + 14 heats

Webelos den lanes 4,5,6 20 heats + 14 heats

Run together yields 30 combined heats + 14 combined heats

Grand championship 32 heats + 14 heats

Total heats = 94 + 42 =136 heats

Down from original 206 heats with same level of competition and sorting.
I like this option better than the other six lane option due to better den level sorting.

Can anyone offer alternatives?

[Stan Pope]

I am renowned for my willingness to court complexity ... but I wouldn't touch the separate two three-lane races at once.

[Cory]

Total heats = 138

Can this be run in a 2 hour Pack meeting?

My only experience is with 3-lane and 4-lane tracks, but IMO this is very aggressive on a 6-lane track with kid-staging. Doing the arithmetic...

2 hours = 60 * 60 * 2 seconds = 7200 seconds

7200 seconds / 138 heats = 52 seconds per heat

When you think about what it takes to run a single heat...

1. Stage six cars
2. Get racers to finish line to watch race
3. Run the race

Each car will have to be staged in at most 6 or 7 seconds. There are some kids that spend 6 or 7 seconds per wheel! Or at least it seems like it. Maybe if you had the adults do it (not my preference) you'd have a shot.

And we're still not taking into account other overheads like announcing, awarding, etc.

Anyone with 6-lane experience out there? How long does it take you to run a single race?

In the mean time, I will think about your goals and see if anything comes to mind.

[Cory]

Anyone with 6-lane experience out there? How long does it take you to run a single race?

I guess there aren't many six-lane tracks out there. Well, in the absence of informed opinions, I will go with my extrapolated opinion which is that is running 1 heat per minute is next to impossible with a 6 cars in every heat.

Given a six-lane track, plus timer, plus software (GPRM???), 50+ kids and a 2-hour time limit, and the desire to award trophies at the Den level and Pack level, my choice would be to run a 1-round PPN chart = 50+ races = 1 run per lane for each car = 6 races per car, at least. This means 5 opponents per race for each car, or 30 opponents total, which is not enough to get sufficient accuracy or sufficient separation for your Den trophies if you use point-based scoring.

Thus, I would use time-based scoring -- either average or cumulative time. To the extent that you maintain a "static" racing environment, this will give you very accurate results within each Den, and also for selection of Finalists.

If you also use time-based scoring for the finals, then it doesn't matter how many finalists you choose.

If you opt for point-based scoring for the finals, then it does matter. You want to choose a number for which there is a PN or CPN chart.

For six lane tracks, CPN charts exist for 7 cars and 11 cars, although for some reason the 11 lane CPN is not in the generator -- a situation which can be corrected.

Since I prefer point-based scoring, I would probably choose the two fastest cars from each group (Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos) plus the next three fastest cars overall for a total of 11 cars. Then I'd run the 11 car chart, either PN (11 heats) or CPN (22 heats) depending on how I was doing timewise.

Note that in your finals, you may very well have some boys racing in consecutive heats at times. (You definitely will if you choose 11 boys for the Finals!) This will slow you down a bit, taking you away from the optimum scenario where you always have six new racers in the pipeline ready to stage their cars.

Even having said all of this, once I received the track and set it up I think I'd get some kids to help me simulate some races to get an idea what it will take to get the kids through at the right speed.

Hope this helps...!

[Mr. Slick]

Well, I do use a six lane track. . . frequently. . . for several years. It started as a 2 lane track and has been expanded over the years.

The only way to have a race for 52 cars AND award trophies in a 2 hour pack meeting is to have lots of coordination and fast people. Tonight I am planning on 4 hours for a race with 64 cars. . . this includes set-up and take down.

The "Pack Meeting" part can account for at least 15 minutes - Opening, short announcements, and a closing . . . no songs, skits, or other fun stuff.

Weigh-in/Check-in has to be done before the beginning of the 2 hour window.

The roster with car numbers has to be pre-loaded or ready to load from a spread sheet once car numbers are assigned. GPRM does a wonderful job of that. Speaking from experience typing 52 names, dens, ranks, etc can take a long time even for a fast typist who knows the fastest sequence of tabs/enter keystrokes.

Check-in for 52 cars can take 45 minutes to an hour if you allow the kids to fine tune their weight to be at 5.0 oz.

When we have experienced adults picking/staging/starting the cars we can turn a race around in 45 seconds on average. You should count on 5 adults at the starting end alone. The stager/starter, 2 people to pick the cars and place them in the bins for the races, someone to put cars that have run back into their places while staying out of the way of the two pickers, and a buffer-man who makes sure that the heats get handed to the stager/starter in the correct order and with the cars in the correct sequence and pointed in the correct direction. This allows the stager/starter to just place the cars from the stage platform straight up on the track and then go back through them to get them all straight - not perfect but if you stay with just one stager/starter it will be consistent.

I would use the total times down all 6 lanes with a total of 52 heats.

Before I start racign I would run the cars through once to "train" the volunteers. This helps the stager/starter know that he can't reset the gate until the cars have finished or their will be no results. It helps the pickers and others in handeling the cars/bins. It also allows for the identification of any cars that just can't make it to the end of the track and need a bit of graphite to help them out. (I know it is modifing a car after check-in, but the kid will be eternally grateful and it would rarely effect the accuracy of the top runners with 52 cars total.)

IF the boys are involved, things will go much slower - count on 2 minutes per heat on average -- plus the number of repeat heats due to problems increases.

At what I call the front table we use at least 3 people. The computer person, the announcer, and the paperwork person. The person running the computer has to be able to verify the cars are for the same heat as the computer has up. The announcer can read the names/car numbers off the screen to inform the audience who is racing so they can verify that their car is in the correct lane AND by reading off the car number the stager/starter can verify that they have the correct cars staged - hint: put the stickers on so they can be read by the stager/starter from behind. The paperwork person gets to keep track of which heats need to be re-run after the normal heats are done and also to write "Speeding Tickets" to those who set new track records. The paperwork person has to really work during the re-racing of heats at the end. These would be those heats where a car had a problem that may have affected another car. The way we do it is write down the current times, reset the heat, enter manual heat results to verify that each car gets the fastest of the original run and the re-run.

Once all that is done printing the reports for the Den/Rank/overall results is a breeze! I also print out the individual Car statistics and cut them into their own strips and place them under each car during the awards so each racer gets a copy of their times for each race.

To see some race results for this season check out: http://www.pwdracing.com/results/

The "Overall Stats" will give you an idea of actual turn around times for heats. Note that Pack 8 does a great job by having the Bear dens act as announcers - slows things down a bit but it is well worth it. The Bears look forward to it each year and it is a great "public speaking" exercise for them.

As far as the physical considerations of a 6 lane track, I use a 10 ft enclosed trailer to store/transport the track between events. Remember that the track is actually just one part of the physical equipment. Car staging racks, crowd control barrier, PA, tools, spare parts, test cars to use after setting it up, all the computer/printer stuff, table cloths, electrical cords, track decorations, room decorations, . . .

Good luck! I have a race tonight, 64 cars expected: set-up 5:30-6:30, check-in starts at 6:00, racing starts at 6:30/7:00, finish racing by 8:00, awards until 8:40, cleaned up and out by 9:30PM. This is with a crew of 4 people who have been doing lots of races for a long time and are well coordinated on what needs to be done by whom and when to do it. It is amazing how much time can be saved by doing things in an optimal order, for instance: make sure that the table cloths get down right away before you start to stack things on the tables. make sure the computer is up and ready to get data from the finish line before you plug in the finish line and then while a person is at the finish line have someone else "start a race" with the finish line person waving their hand under the finish line to simulate a race so that the computer person can verify that things are communicating. . .

[Warthog]

At our Pack race this year we used a 3 lane track with 47 cars. Each car ran twice per lane. We have Boys Scouts that run our race and after we got going they had some very quick turn around times - the lowest was 14 seconds between heats. Total time to run the scout race was 1 hr and this includes a 10 minute delay we had with sun coming through a window and causing problems with the timer.

I believe the two hours you speak of can be done if the race is run efficiently. If the boys are involved in staging their cars then all bets are off.

[SlartyBartFast]

Doesn’t the difference between 3 and six only change the minimum number of runs to be fair?
Once per lane on a 3 track vs once per lane on a 6 track?
Or if running equal numbers of times on each lane, the following number of heats per competitor req’d:
3: 3, 6, 9
4: 4, 8, 12
6: 6, 12, 18
But, the number of heats over all = competitors * runs per competitor / number of tracks
For 25 competitors:
3: 25, 50, 75
4: 25, 50, 75
6: 25, 50, 75
The number of heats doesn’t change. Adding tracks allows you to run the same number of competitors, more often, in the same time (plus additional overhead). So, adding lanes lets you give competitors more “runs for their money”. But does nothing to help you decrease the time requirements unless you use (the much discredited and generally loathed) elimination methods allowing you to eliminate more competitors each heat.
Right?
To run things efficiently, I was thinking the best approach, if having the competitors stage the cars, would be to announce the next-up competitors before then announcing each racer for the current race as they stage their car. Just like in baseball with the next batter on-deck.
If track officials are staging, have two working the track on staging the current heat, the assembling the next.
One interesting method I’ve read about lets the competitors choose their opponents. Give each a number of tickets for each lane. Then have a line for each lane. Of course traffic control in the lines becomes an issue and few of the competitors would probably watch races other than their own.

[Cory]

The number of heats doesn’t change. Adding tracks allows you to run the same number of competitors, more often, in the same time (plus additional overhead). So, adding lanes lets you give competitors more “runs for their money”.

My experience has led me to a different paradigm. With kid-staging, I don't see staging the cars as overhead -- I see it as the primary consumer of time. Running the races is the overhead.

For example, running 50 cars once per lane on a 6-lane track (50 heats) provides the same "runs for the money" as running 50 cars twice per lane on a 3-lane track (100 heats). With 50 fewer races, the 6-lane solution will save maybe 200 seconds in "true" racing time ... 50 races X 4 seconds per race. This is a little over three minutes -- the difference in overhead associated with using 3-lanes instead of 6-lanes.

However, in either scenario the same kids are staging the same cars a total of 300 times. Guess-timating 10 seconds per stage, that makes 3000 seconds, which is 50 minutes.

I know I've over-simplified a bit, but based on this thinking I believe that when estimating time for kid-staged races, you should count the total number of single car stages, not the total number of heats. This was the reason BigSilver's original scheme raised a red flag with me. As is apparent from Big Slick's post, you just aren't going to run 120+ heats on a 6-lane track in 2 hours with kids staging the cars. There are too many cars to stage.