Question for fellow District PWD Chairs

[CuriousGeorge]

No District Chair veterans have informed me to wear the body armor I have accessible through the police department. Don't want to take any body blows. My face is too high up for most to get a clean shot at.

Body armor? I think that's a little overboard............ I've found that I can settle most arguments with pepper spray (and I don't even have to get up out of my seat). But make sure not to get any on the cars!!

[derbyspeed]

Nooby - you summed it up. All packs should just adopt the district rules. I had several packs e-mail me that they had done just that.

I would agree totally. This is my first year as cubmaster and running the Derby. I did a full Pack Meeting seminar on the Pinewood Derby and handed out the district rules to everyone. The seminar helped with what not to do because even with the district rules there are some areas that are a little unclear. Since my son has raced at the district I was able to clear up some of those areas.

The first year we raced at our pack we didn't have any rules from the pack itself. We were just told to follow the rules in the kit. Well those rules leave things wide open as far as I'm concerned, but we passed inspection and actually came from behind in the loser's bracket to overcome and take 1st place. Since then my son has taken first place at the pack races everytime and a 2nd and 3rd at the district.

With my experiences I wanted to make sure everyone knew the rules and way ahead of time, therefore the seminar in December when the cars were handed out. It's pretty hard to complain when the rules have been given and explained to you way ahead of time.

We are also doing a time trials 2 days before the race so that will help eliminate many problems, but of course that is a little overkill for a district race.

[jbofkc]

I was informed via e-mail that the unit commissioners wish/elected to make a rules change. To permit not using the axle slots and allowing extended wheelbases. A ruling that was determined without my input. So much for coordinating the central element of a racing event -- equal and balanced rules for all to follow.

I am trying to contact folks and get to the justification for this change. All is not lost, but at this point so much for getting the rules out early.

Interesting things is that no extended wheelbases and using the pre-cut axle slots was in the rules last year. May be proposing a second race group for these folks and run the others that followed the original rules heads-up. Bad part of this is that is segments the boys and we do not get a single district champion.

If I am not able to hold serve and keep the rules as they are for a late March race, I am going to have plenty of upset folks on my hands that followed the rules as originally posted. Too bad I was not included in the discussion and that a few apples can upset things for the majority that followed the rules.

[Stan Pope]

I was informed via e-mail that the unit commissioners wish/elected to make a rules change. To permit not using the axle slots and allowing extended wheelbases. A ruling that was determined without my input. So much for coordinating the central element of a racing event -- equal and balanced rules for all to follow.

Unit Commissioners simply don't have the authority to change the program, unless delegated to them by the District Chairman. The District Commissioner (the Unit Cmr's boss) can't delegate it. The District Executive can't delegate it (but the District Chairman will usually "go along with" the District Exec's recommendation.)

It is time for a discussion with your DE to get a start on sorting the problem. If you have a District Program Chairman, get him/her involved, too.

There are serious problems here and they need to be nipped in the bud ... or at least before the tree gets too much taller.

[psycaz]

jbofkc

If you are able to find a person to talk to who made this decision, be sure to emphasize how unfair to change the rules at this late date is to everyone who followed them.

It provides an unfair competitive advantage to using the loosened rules.

The rules shouldn't be changed to suit one group at the result of harming the rest.

It sounds like the person you talked to on the phone managed to get into someone's ear.

[derbyspeed]

I was informed via e-mail that the unit commissioners wish/elected to make a rules change. To permit not using the axle slots and allowing extended wheelbases. A ruling that was determined without my input. So much for coordinating the central element of a racing event -- equal and balanced rules for all to follow.

I am trying to contact folks and get to the justification for this change. All is not lost, but at this point so much for getting the rules out early.

Interesting things is that no extended wheelbases and using the pre-cut axle slots was in the rules last year.

Definitely a poor decision, in that it is a late decision, on the unit commissioners. Rules for next year should be set in stone right after this year's race. Not only is it bad for the Pinewood Derby but it is bad for scouting. A good way to lose some scouts over last minute changes that may not have any reason to be changed.

I would suggest that they hold onto that rule change until next year and make the announcement right after this year's race. If you have any pull?! I feel for you, being a leader!

[Go Bubba Go]

I was informed via e-mail that the unit commissioners wish/elected to make a rules change. To permit not using the axle slots and allowing extended wheelbases. A ruling that was determined without my input. So much for coordinating the central element of a racing event -- equal and balanced rules for all to follow.

Am I to understand that this just (i.e. in the last couple of days) took place?

I would TELL them (not ask) nice idea for next year, but this year's program is already in flight (I understand that you sent the rules out in December?)

Unit Commissioners simply don't have the authority to change the program, unless delegated to them by the District Chairman. The District Commissioner (the Unit Cmr's boss) can't delegate it. The District Executive can't delegate it (but the District Chairman will usually "go along with" the District Exec's recommendation.)

It is time for a discussion with your DE to get a start on sorting the problem. If you have a District Program Chairman, get him/her involved, too.

There are serious problems here and they need to be nipped in the bud ... or at least before the tree gets too much taller.

Stan is quite right on this. No wonder this event has been such a mess if Unit Comms think they have the ability (and are allowed) to make changes such as this, esp. when many of the Pack have already run their races for the year.

You need to have a serious talk with your DE about a couple of things:

1) How this decision was made (i.e. who really wears the pants in this outfit). An Event Chair should welcome recommendations and suggestions from folks, he should not be getting "informed" of decisions others have made for him about his event. If your DE is cutting your legs out from under you by allowing others to make these kind of decisions for you then you are gonna have real problems, this is only the beginning.

2) The likely outcome of this proposed last minute change. It may please a few people who didn't read the rules that you posted in December, but it will very likely displease a greater number of folks who did. DE's typically don't like a lot of controversy, and this change looks like one in the making. If he allows this change to stand, you have to get some kind of reassurance from him that this is the last one of which you will be "informed" rather than involved. See 1) above.

Bubba

[jbofkc]

Excellent feedback and greatly appreciated. All that you folks noted had been set into motion right after my note to you was sent. I appreciate the confirmation. Unfortunately, at this point only voice messages and followed-up via e-mails. I have not been able to get anyone on the phone.

Volunteers are scarce. As we know, 10% due 80% of the work. This is my first experience working on a district project. That are not endearing themselves to me and my interest to contribute at this level again. Really bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks again for your input.

[Go Bubba Go]

Two afterthoughts:

1) Even is you "lose" the last minute change battle, you need to settle with the DE who is in charge of the event i.e. who makes the final determination on rules and application going forward. It wouldn't surprise me a bit for a couple of the "ambitious" unit coms that "informed" you of the rule change to show up at inspection time and try to assert themselves there as well. You need to have discussed this with your DE, and perhaps with them as well, ahead of time.

2) Keep in mind it is for the boys, so try to make the event the best for them that you can in spite of the "extra" help from the unit coms. Not saying it won't be an uphill battle, cause it might.

Bubba

[joe]

jb, one of the problems I see forthcoming is the commissioners asking "who wrote the rules" and "why didn't so-and-so have input" into the writing of these rules. Or more likely, "we didn't get the message about the new rules in time." Also, they may ask for "justification" as to WHY they cannot have extended wheelbases...i.e. where is the "proof" that this is an unfair advantage, because the rule is keeping some kids from racing their Pack cars.
I think you have done everything correctly. If they drilled holes to get their wheels out there in the first place, they can drill them again in the proper position according to the rules that were posted 2 months ago. On the other hand, I would not be concerned about an unfair advantage from extended wheelbase -- this modification has advantages AND disadvantages, and is a very slight advantage at best and probably not for the reason most would think. If you are going to make a pitched battle, choose your ground carefully--preferably modifications that the average parent and adult cannot make with any degree of proficiency. Extended wheelbase is a very simple modification that my grandma could perform. However, rules are rules...and I suspect your "battle" in this regard is simply more a matter of defending the rules.

[jbofkc]

All,

We held serve and have the written support (e-mail) of the DE that the intended rule change is not warranted and not going to happen for this year's race.

Thanks you all for your support!