Rules about mold matching wheels?

[whodathunkit]

Do any of you have rules prohibiteding mold matched wheels?

[gpraceman]

Never heard of such a rule and I hope not to. It would be really unnecessary. Besides, someone reported getting a set of mold matched wheels in one of the wheel packs made by Revell. So, we are going to penalize someone that just happens to get the wheels mold matched out of the "official" BSA kit or wheel sets?

[psycaz]

I've been told that at our council race, the inspectors were looking or mold matched wheels. While not against any of the written rules that were used, once noticed, any car with matched wheels was gone over extremely well.

Also told that they were DQ'ing cars that they thought weren't scout built. Matched wheels being one of their indicators of such.

I did not attend the race and from what I was told, am somewhat happy that I did not. I would have probably stated my mind which would have caused issues.

[Rukkian]

That just seems to be asking for a lot of hurt feelings, and seems to go against the whole point of it. I know there are people that cheat/enter cars that are not scout built, but if you disqualify even one car that was scout built, you have ruined the whole event.

[rpcarpe]

If you read the other posts on current wheel quality, you'd know that mold matching may not be as important as wheel and axle preparation.

I constantly advocate for simpler and fairer rules. It helps when you have a Cub scout point of view on rules.

[whodathunkit]

I agree with all of you! I hope it never finds its place in the rules and qualifications.

[3 Cub Dad]

WDT

I've never heard of any rules prohibiting mold matched wheels. BUT, as an inspector, it IS one of the first things looked for and one of the things I teach the inspectors to look for, and yes, it can and does trigger a little extra attention.

The best term I can think of for it is called "profiling". If you think about it from a law enforcement standpoint, when looking for a suspect, they always try to build a "profile" of what the suspect looks like, does, or where he would be found. If you're getting ready to board an airplane from LA to DC, and there's a 70 year old lady knitting, and a 23 year old male who bought a one way ticket, with no checked luggage, tightly clasping his knapsack and sweating profusely, which one do you want the TSA to check out? Yes, there are always exceptions. But the profile works because it most who do something fit a certain profile, NOT that most in the profile commit the act! The young man in the airport could have run to the gate at the last minute trying to make it home to see a sick relative.

So, mold matched wheels? Yes, it's an indication for an extra look. But if everything's within the rules, then there's no problem.

Basis for disqualification for non-scout built? NEVER! But I might ask a question or two. In running District inspections in a couple of districts for the last 7 years, I have only disqualified one non-scout built car, (there's an old thread on here about it somewhere if you want the story), and that one ended up with the scout and mother admiting that they had paid someone to make the car for them.

We typically use mold matched wheels, but do the work on them ourselves.

just my 2 cents worth!

3 Cub Dad

[FatSebastian]

Besides, someone reported getting a set of mold matched wheels in one of the wheel packs made by Revell.

While it is unlikely that all wheels would come mold-matched right out of the box / tube, it remains a possibility.
According to MaxV, there are 16 different BSA molds. If the probability that a particular mold number is packaged into the container (box or tube) is 1/16 (6.25%), the probability that the first wheel packaged is from Mold #1 is 6.25%. The probability that the second wheel is from Mold #1 is also 6.25%. And the third, and the fourth. So the total probability that all four wheels are from Mold #1 would seem to be 1/16 x 1/16 x 1/16 x 1/16 = 1/65536 or ~0.00153%. The same (very low probability) exists for having all four wheels from Mold #2, as well as from #3, and so on up to #16, such that the probability of getting any matched set is 16 x 1/65536, or 1/4096 (0.0244%). (I think; please check the math.)

...once noticed, any car with matched wheels was gone over extremely well.

...it can and does trigger a little extra attention.

Yes, to avoid "suspicions" we do not tend to practice mold matching, except for perhaps matching the two rears (as it seems that one-third of kits contain two matching wheels - not unusual!).
If the probability of a wheel being from Mold #1 = 1/16, then the probability of a wheel not being from Mold #1 (Not1) = 15/16. If exactly two wheels from a 4-wheel set are from Mold #1, the following kit combinations are possible: [1 1 Not1 Not1], [1 Not1 1 Not1], [1 Not1 Not1 1], [Not1 Not1 1 1], [Not1 1 Not1 1], [Not1 1 1 Not1]. The probability of each of these combinations is 1/16 x 1/16 x 15/16 x 15/16 = 225/65536. The total probability of having two wheels from Mold #1 is the product of all six possible combinations: 6 x 225/65536 = 1350/65536 ≈ 2%. Because the molds numbers can actually range from #1 to #16, the probability of two matching wheels across all mold values is 16 x 1350/65536 ≈ 33%.

they always try to build a "profile" of what the suspect looks like [...] which one do you want the TSA to check out?

They might profile the 70-year-old lady because of her knitting needles!

[Derby Evolution]

The Revell wheels are mold matched in the package. Since they are offical BSA products how could a pack prohibit mold matched wheels.

[Nitro Dan]

Do any of you have rules prohibiteding mold matched wheels?

We do have a rule that says you have to use the wheels in the box. Then we purposely open the all the kits before handing them out and make sure there are different mold numbers on each wheel in the box (no matched wheels). At inspections we purposely look into each wheel on the car and verify that the mold numbers do not match. This is not done with the intention of preventing wheel matching, but more as a check to see if altered wheels from a third party vendor are being used on the car (since most vendors match their altered wheels). If a match is discovered, then the wheels are scrutinized by a more knowledgable inspector to see what alterations may have been done. If no illegal alterations are found, then the car can be marked as passed for that portion of the inspection.

-Nitro Dan

[rpcarpe]

If your rules have something like 'must use BSA wheels' then why worry about mold numbers?

[drathbun]

I think based on how I read the post they're just using mold numbers as an indicator that something else may have been done. The odds of getting 4 wheels out of the box with matching numbers are slim, and therefore if the rules specify that the wheels that come with the kit must be used, matching numbers would be an indication that the rule was not followed.

[Darin McGrew]

The odds of getting 4 wheels out of the box with matching numbers are slim,[...]

Except when the odds are 100%. Apparently, the wheels in Revell's Official Wheel & Axle Set (licensed by BSA) are mold-matched out of the package.

[FatSebastian]

The odds of getting 4 wheels out of the box with matching numbers are slim,[...]

Apparently, the wheels in Revell's Official Wheel & Axle Set (licensed by BSA) are mold-matched out of the package.

You're both right! The BSA wheels out of the kit ("box") are not matched, while the Revell wheels out of the tube are.

[idpwdnut]

Apparently, the wheels in Revell's Official Wheel & Axle Set (licensed by BSA) are mold-matched out of the package.

You're both right! The BSA wheels out of the kit ("box") are not matched, while the Revell wheels out of the tube are.

Unless your in my local craft store, opened up 5 Revell Tubes one tube had two wheels that matched, the other 4 had none. Did not check all of the other tubes though. Guess no guarantees either way