Fastest car does not win?

[jinx1212]

Hello,

My son and I participated in our first Pinewood Derby today and we had a great time. But something has really changed from what I remember as a child.

The cars seemed the same as I remember (CG placement, axle polishing, etc), but after we checked in they had the kids practice releasing the car (?!). I presumed this was some sort of staging mechanism and that at its heart the race was still like I remembered it. Then I started looking at the lights and I think no way are these kids starting the timer, the variation of when they actually hit the button will be huge.

Sure enough, this system measures reaction time. The young fellow (webelo 2 IIRC) that won had a nice car but his reaction times were about 0.07 sec. on average (FWIW I used to help a bracket racer buddy back in the day and I remember that there was a rule that anything under a certain reaction time was a red light and it was way more that 0.07 seconds! )

Anyway we had the fastest car out of 40 cars (be a decent margin, maybe 0.040 sec) and very consistent times. But my 7 year olds reaction time was between .190 and .250. Nothing on earth was going to make up for that 1/8th second advantage in the start. Oh and a red light added .5 seconds, we weren't ready for any of this.

Sorry for rambling, but my question......is this normal? I mean so many things threw me, even the track did not have a center guide (that is another topic!)

If it is we better practice pushing that button faster!

[Stan Pope]

This is an interesting variation that is used in a few places. It is interesting in that it more accurately simulates a real drag race! From that point of view, it may be attractive to Cub Scouts.

It is not common. It is questionable whether is should be used when racing between members of different age groups.

I don't think we can categorize the method as either "right" or "wrong". Is it the best way to run PW races? I don't think so.

From my perspective, as the father and grandfather of Cubs who have built and raced PW cars, it would make a great "secondary activity" for Cubs when they are not participating in their own "traditional PW race!"

[Scoremaker]

I would agree with you on that Stan.

From my perspective, as the father and grandfather of Cubs who have built and raced PW cars, it would make a great "secondary activity" for Cubs when they are not participating in their own "traditional PW race!"

[3 Cub Dad]

Jinx,

That is absolutely ridiculous. Personally, I have never heard of it.

There's a reason why when we run the Raingutter Regatta, we do NOT have Webelos competing against Tigers! If it's a physical competition, it needs to be within age group only.

Very few things have I ever, or would I ever, raise to the level of complaining to leaders or district. Usually, I just get myself into the program or team and change it from within. This one however, I would have to make my voice heard.

Just my opinion.

3 Cub Dad

[Scoremaker]

Another thing that you can do 3 Cub Dad is to get on your Pack pinewood derby committee. You can offer some advise how to make your race run better. There's a lot of people on here will tell you volunteer if you want a change to happen. Good luck

[rpcarpe]

The drop of the start pin should be the 'most fair' practice of the entire race.

[ciodude]

I've never heard of this practice either. I have yet to run a race on track with an automated starter. Most races I have been in/at they have the same person releasing the cars - again to be as consistant and fair as possible.

[Stan Pope]

I knew that I had read of this before ... right here on DT! See this thread from back in 2006-8.

[dna1990]

How did they measure RT? Was there a photo sensor near the top the car rolled over, or something? How many lanes, has to be single, yea? You say button, so I am guessing they measure RT from some external timer that starts with a light tree and stops on the kids pressing of the start button. In turn the start button fires a solenoid starting gate for a more traditional PWD portion of the race. Correct?

I love it.

Now that being said, there are a whole host of things to consider. The first being, letting all the marbles ride on the total ET alone. I would suggest awards or recognition for all three areas, RT, track ET, and total ET. As in any event, competing by age groups makes alot of sense, knowing that some really small packs make this not feasible. But in the case, I believe age and maturity do offer an unfair advantage. (Of course, not to mention they have more hours playing xbox COD with millisecond headshots)

I am most troubled by the fact you did not know about it until race day. Were there any rules or flyers handed out?

But yes, a side-rail only track - does speak to a pretty non-traditional race setup. Likely homemade. Likely with lots of care and imagination, given the starting tree, etc. Just not likely within the usual definitions and layout. And not very inviting to the new guys.


I do know in one recent CO2 (blastcar) event I was involved with (middle school age kids), they too used individual triggers and RT was used to determine total ET and ranking. I think it really made it fun. I just would not rank cub age kids by it for the only awards being handed out. Within SoapBox, I have overheard other discussions of bracket or dial-in races, where indeed mininum reaction times exist. But I think that is only for break out racing (handicapped) - flat out racing there is no mininum IIRC.