List of all speed modifications in regards to rules creation

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red2cwm
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List of all speed modifications in regards to rules creation

Post by red2cwm » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:18 pm

The next step in my quest to make up a decent set of rules is to determine which speed modifications will not be allowed. In order to do this, I feel it would be best to see a comprehensive list of all of the modifications that can be done to a car that (supposedly or actually) increase its speed. Then from there I can sit down with the Cubmaster and PWD Committee to determine which modifications will not be allowed. Please let me know if there are any speed mods that I have missed. I'd like to stay away from the validity of any of these mods as well as whether or not they should be allowed in a race.

Car body:
Weight
Weight Placement (COM)
Hollowing out sections
Rolling weights
Wheelbase extension
Wheelbase movement forward or backward
Staggering of wheel placement
Redrilling axle holes level
Redrilling axle holes with a cant
Raising one wheel
Washers attached to the body where the wheel hubs would touch
Graphite pads where the wheels hubs touch the body
Body finishes that are low friction at axle locations
Lubricant dispensing system built into the car body
Fast start/cheater bar/raised front end
Propulsion or thrust generation
Aftermarket blocks
Fenders

Wheels:
Lightening (removal of wheel material, drilling holes, etc)
Truing of tread to be parallel to the bore
Setting the tread with a cant respective of the bore
Decreasing wheel diameter
Decreasing tread width
Razor wheels
Polishing Tread
H/V Cutting Tread
Rounding Tread
Tapering inner hub
Flattening inner hub
Removing step from outer hub
Dome/Cone outer hub
Polishing inside edge
Polishing inside edge
Polishing bore
Increasing bore diameter
Decreasing bore diameter
Polishing inner hub
Graphite on outside of wheel
Mold Matching wheels
Balancing wheel
Filling wheels with foam
Applying a skin over the inside of the wheels
Center rail guide fin instead of 4th wheel
Grooved wheel bore
Hubcaps (that may house lubricant)
Aftermarket wheels
Poker chips :)

Axles:
Lube - dry, liquid, thin-film, apply wet/then let dry
Aftermarket axles
Replating original axles
Burrs removed
Crimp marks removed
Nail head tapered
Polished
Grooved axle
Grooved head
Thicker axles
Thinner axles
Bushings
Bearings
Washers
Springs
Canting the axles in slots
Bending the axles to create a cant
Rail riding
Last edited by red2cwm on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Darin McGrew
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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Darin McGrew » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:20 pm

You have quite a list, but here are a few more off the top of my head:

Powered cars of various kinds (propeller cars, motors connected to the wheels, etc.)
Dangerous materials of various kinds (mercury as moving weight, rocket engines, etc.)

Grooved wheel bore (using a tap)
Replacing wheels with metal skids
Various forms and brands of
- graphite
- other dry lubricants
- liquid lubricants
- thin-film lubricants
- lubricants you apply wet, then let dry
Body finishes (paint, skins, whatever) that are designed to be low friction (not just pads at axle locations)
Lubricant dispensing system built into the car body



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by FatSebastian » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:16 pm

Darin McGrew wrote:Lubricant dispensing system built into the car body
Hubcaps (that may house lubricant).
red2cwm wrote:Filling wheels with foam
Applying a skin over the inside of the wheels (e.g., tape)
red2cwm wrote:Canting the axles in slots
Bending axles?
red2cwm wrote:Aftermarket axles
Replating original axles. Also, use of aftermarket wheels and blocks (exotic woods).

Fenders.



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whodathunkit
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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by whodathunkit » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:02 pm

red2cwm wrote:The next step in my quest to make up a decent set of rules is to determine which speed modifications will not be allowed. In order to do this, I feel it would be best to see a comprehensive list of all of the modifications that can be done to a car that (supposedly or actually) increase its speed. Then from there I can sit down with the Cubmaster and PWD Committee to determine which modifications will not be allowed. Please let me know if there are any speed mods that I have missed.
You missed Stan & Sporty's.. Pokerchip brass bushing needel axel speed wheels on this list.
Just when i thought someone would speek up for them.. to get them on this list.
But no I'm the one that has to supposedly actually say it.. Shame on you guys.

I know.. i know that
There Sporty's BSA logoed pokerchips and the brass bushings came out of Stan's BSA ink pen
And the needels out of a BSA first aid kit.. But come on guy's lets get these wheels on this list. :rofl:
Last edited by whodathunkit on Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 6 times in total.


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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Darin McGrew » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:34 pm

How could I forget? This technique that caused our most recent rule change:

Glue standard nail-style axles into brass tube, creating 2 solid axles instead of 4 nail-style axles. It also created brass bushings where the wheel hub made contact, since the wood body was much narrower than the spacing between the wheels.



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by whodathunkit » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:33 pm

Darin McGrew wrote:How could I forget? This technique that caused our most recent rule change:
Darin, how could we forget that Stan & Sporty.
Must of used FatSebastion's Really Cool Homemade Concentricity Gauge..
To check for the roundness of the BSA/PCW to the brass bushing.
It's no wounder these speed wheels need to be put on this list. :)

Not trying to shuffle the deck.. just dealing out some laughter. ;)


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by red2cwm » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:49 pm

Thanks for the great additions guys. (including the poker chips...) I'l be taking the list to the committee soon along with the proposed rules. (not including the poker chips...)



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:17 pm

red2cwm wrote: I'l be taking the list to the committee soon along with the proposed rules.
(not including the poker chips...)
red2cwm,
I don't blame you for not wanting to take the poker chips along..
Stan, Sporty & FS.. are some stand up guys here on DT.

Best of luck with the proposed rules to the committee.
Whoda.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Stan Pope » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:05 pm

red2cwm wrote:Thanks for the great additions guys. (including the poker chips...) I'l be taking the list to the committee soon along with the proposed rules. (not including the poker chips...)
Don't get "hung up" on the poker chips ... I suggested plastic poker chips as a cheap source of plastic that can readily be machined to function as wheels for open class racing. The preferred (among serious open class racers) wheel material appears to be delrin (I think that I spelled that correctly).


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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by red2cwm » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:14 pm

Stan, it's all in good fun. We'll be going with the "official BSA wheels" rule anyway. Please do let me know if you think of any other speed mods that I have missed.



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:21 am

red2cwm wrote:Stan, it's all in good fun. We'll be going with the "official BSA wheels" rule anyway. Please do let me know if you think of any other speed mods that I have missed.
My "rule of thumb" in assessing rules is whether a rule creates or allows a narrow solution which is either very difficult or is expensive. For instance, I am suggesting to our chairman that the distance from each end of a car to the farthest axle be limited to approx. 6". The reasoning is that allowing more extended wheelbase gives a significant advantage to those who can afford high density ballast or have the contacts to acquire less expensive scrap (e.g. tungsten alloy weld rod ends). While there is still an advantage to the more concentrated distribution of mass, the CM location advantage disappears. Such a rule still has to be "inspectable", and a gage to check "end to far axle" distance is easy to build.
Last edited by Stan Pope on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix typos


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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Speedster » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:25 am

YIKES !!!! I see trouble on the horizon. I'm beginning to love our Super Restrictive rules. "Axles MUST be inserted into the pre-made slots only. The axles and slots must be entirely visible". When I cut off the back and move it to the front the measurement from front of car to rear axle slot becomes 6 3/8" which makes me illegal under what you are suggesting. If everyone would adopt our rules most problems would go away. Our restrictive rules now favor the builder who follows all the Laws of Physics if they are trying to win the race and care about nothing else. The builder must pay Super Attention to Detail. A rail rider that is built ends up being a "sort of" rail rider and the scout knows he's cheating. In a previous topic my car was suppose to have an advantage over an identical car with an extended wheelbase. If memory serves me, Mr. Pope and Sporty never did quite get that settled. An extended wheel base is a complicated build. Why bother with it? If we're looking to keep it simple for all scouts, let's keep it simple. In closing, I hope no one from my District is a reader of DT. Ha, Ha. Why would anyone allow an extended wheelbase?



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:50 am

Speedster wrote:Why would anyone allow an extended wheelbase?
Maybe because the "Rules in the Box" allow it???


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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Darin McGrew » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:53 pm

Speedster wrote:An extended wheel base is a complicated build.
Not really. We already have band saws and drill presses at our workshops. It's pretty easy to cut new slots, and then press axle holes into them the same way we do when we press axle holes into the original slots.
Speedster wrote:Why would anyone allow an extended wheelbase?
Why would anyone ban an extended wheelbase? AFAICS, an extended wheelbase isn't a "silver bullet" and it isn't that hard to do.

Besides, some designs look a lot better with an extended wheelbase, for example:
ImageImage



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Re: List of all speed modifications in regards to rules crea

Post by Speedster » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:22 pm

I respectfully disagree. If it's not for the boys. For you it's easy. For the Grandmother I met on Woodville Road, Toledo, Ohio, raising her Grandson by herself, no tools and no one to help her, it's not only hard, it's impossible. Of all the Districts in the Erie Council, none of them allow an extended wheelbase. That works for me. Those who do allow it, that's fine. I feel our rules keep the competition as fair as we possible can. I truly don't know what else we can do to make it better.
Cheers
Bill



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