We need to be efficient

How to have useful construction workshops.
Speedster
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We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:40 pm

We schedule a workshop the 1st Saturday of January of every year in the township hall of Jerusalem Township for 3 Packs. I wish I could do it for the entire District. Lots of room. The workshop is schedule for 9AM to 4PM. Short speech on Physics by me at 9AM. We do not cut out cars that are intended for best design. Those cars are for the scouts team to do. I, and 4 other very knowledgeable, pinewood Derby super skilled guys, equipped with band saws, scroll saws, and drill presses, help the scouts and their families. God Bless them. This last year the workshop went to 6 o'clock which was 9 hours straight, not stopping for lunch. OK, I'm not looking for sympathy here. Then what do you want, Bill?

I'm hoping to get Randy, Maximum Velocity, to offer a Pro body Jig with the front bar having the left front hole raised to be able to run a 3 wheeler without any effort or moving things around. I think this would be a benefit for all of us who do workshops. If this would be of interest to you , would you drop Randy (Maximum Velocity) a line and let him know your interest. Thank You.
Yours in Going Downhill Fast,
Bill -- Speedster

Maximum Velocity has asked me to go directly to Derby Worx so I will do that.
Last edited by Speedster on Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Perry24
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Perry24 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:14 pm

Bill, that would be perfect. Can I add that it should also allow you to drill starter holes in axle slots? Our Council still requires you to use the axle slots.

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Speedster
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:05 pm

Derby Worx wrote me and I can't get what I want.
We've been using an axle Made in China and leaving it permanently in a drill press. It measures about .086 and doesn't tear up the wood. We run it in at the top of 3 slots and then use the Pro-Body Tool 2, hold it by hand, and use the drill bit to drill for the higher hole. I think that's about as efficient as we're going to get.



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whodathunkit
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by whodathunkit » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:12 pm

Bill,
Take your idea to a machine shop and have a jig made for use in your work shops.


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Darin McGrew
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Darin McGrew » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:44 am

Personally, I'd rather teach the kids how to use general-purpose tools than derby-specific tools. So I'm clearly not the target market for any of the derby-specific tools.



Speedster
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:37 am

Darin, apparently neither is anyone else or you can be sure Derbyworx would make it. What surprised me was Derbyworx has the tool. All they would have to do is drill 4 holes in a different place and they know where the holes go. I try to use every tool I can in the workshops to show the scouts what it does and why it will make their car go faster. Scouts like playing with the tools. This year we introduced wheel and axle prep and it was a very busy station. I thought for sure we had enough skilled workers this year but it was not to be. We do not cut out cars for Best Design. Everyone is notified of this prior to the workshop and everyone has respected it. We have a new Pack Leader this year and he loves the Derby and Speed. We'll see if he can get more help for next years Workshop.



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Gtdhw » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:15 am

IF I'm understanding this correctly, why not take the standard body jig tool, take one (the front) block off, have one side hole drilled out a bit, filled with a tig weld, then re-drill the raised hole? Seems like something that any competent machine shop could do (or anyone with a tig welder, drill press, and the skills to use both). Would take very little time, and should be rather inexpensive. I must add though, that from my experience, the body jig blocks are not the same as the blocks that one buy's individually. They look physically the same (except for the notch that allows the attachment to the cross bar), but the holes are an 1/8" higher on the blocks that come with the body jig.


Single block on the left, body jig block on the right.

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Speedster
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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:47 am

You are correct and therein lies the problem. If you are required to have 4 on the ground the #44 drill bit will remove a very small piece of wood using the jig and the slots will still be visible as slots (I think). I'm using calipers to try to determine things. If you raise a hole in the jig for a lifted wheel you will be drilling all wood. Now you would have to saw out wood to create a slot. Not efficient. The location of the original jig hole is probably good for the raised wheel. The other 3 holes need to be lowered.

My nephew will build me what I want. I was hoping I could help folks across the country by getting Derbyworx to make the tool and perhaps help Derbyworx as well. Derbyworx obviously has decided it would not be profitable for them. I did not realize there is a demand for a tool where you could drill all straight holes in the block or 3 straight holes and one raised hole. I thought for sure there were more folks using slots then drilling holes. Live and Learn.

Gtdhw, Thank You for the picture. It would appear all that needs to be done is to drill 4 holes. It looks like there is enough room to drill directly under the existing holes in the jig. One front original jig hole should serve as the raised wheel hole. You would then have holes for a 4 on the ground and also a 3 wheeler without removing the jig. I need to buy a jig. More Later.



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Gtdhw » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:32 am

Granted the lower/single block has some wear, but I don't see drilling underneath the existing high hole, working. Just not enough meat. That's why I was thinking of having the high hole filled, then redrilling a hole at the desired height. I do realize that that takes away the option of doing 3 or 4, with the same jig, but not sure what else is feasible...

Edit to add: I too, am surprised, that there would not be a market for a jig that is set up exactly as you describe in your last paragraph. Sure would make things easier/less complicated for many derby Son/Dad teams.

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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:07 am

What if I raise the bases in the Jig's blocks to match the Pro-Body Tool 2. That would raise the wood block as though it were being drilled by the Pro-Body Tool 2. All I would have to do is drill a hole for a raised wheel.



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Gtdhw » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:36 pm

I would say that you are onto something.

Given that the bed raising material was sturdy/consistent (something like a couple of .0625 steel shims cut to the bed size). The only issue I see, is that one would have to remove the front clamp enough, to give room to knock/pull/remove the front bed spacer, after drilling the DFW hole, then re-clamp to drill the raised hole. Not a big issue IMO, and still pretty easy.


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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by knotthed » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:01 pm

Speedster,

Are you using a bent steering axle?

I only use the pro body jig to mark my hole location, then drill on the drill press using the block or bullet. The point is if you bend your steering wheel axle, you will automatically have the 4th wheel lifted.

If you are running that many people thru your jigs, they have to be wearing out, if I were to get a custom jig, I would be looking for something like Goatboy drill jig with carbide drill bushings so it will not wear out and affect your alignment.

In fact, you could probably setup a jig stop to do the two front holes on a drill press, while using a standalone jig for the rears where alignment is critical.

Just some food for thought.



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:05 pm

Gtdhw, I figured on putting a 1/16" (?) of Oak, Walnut, whatever I can get at our well equipped hobby store, onto the blocks with Duct tape double face tape. The Duct tape is very thin but very strong. I'm never going to remove it. This will position the block to have the slots in line the same as if the Pro-Body Tool was being used. The goal is to make it easy for scouts and their Adult helper to install the wheels at a later date and to make it fast for me. All I will have to do is drill one hole to lift the NDFW. I like your idea about the steel shims. I'll see what I can find.

knotthed, I know you. You're thinking about building a real FAST car. We're trying to help the folks build a "sorta" fast car. If I didn't want to raise the NDFW quickly, the Jig as it is would work fine. I'm in a bit of trouble there because I teach at the presentations our District does not require 4 on the ground and 3 wheelers are faster. We do not bend axles at the workshop. Presently we're tying up a drill press with an Axle made in China. With a set-up Jig, we would free up the drill press. If I , and only I, with a hand drill, do the drilling I would hope I could make it last for a few years. That would be satisfactory.
The 2 scouts I work with during the summer do not build cars this way. We're not in a hurry so this is not applicable. As I've mentioned before, our workshop was scheduled to go from 9AM to 4PM and went to 6PM. No breaks. I did a prior workshop with another Pack that was scheduled to go from 4PM to 8pm and was held at the Pack leaders house. It went to 11PM and I had a long drive home. Am I the only one on Derbytalk that has this Problem? Am I just a BIG CRYBABY?



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by knotthed » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:26 am

Speedster,

I didn't understand your problem. You want to free up a drill press by using a manual jig?

If that's the case, I am confident you could find a used drill press for the price of a jig. With your workshop being so successful, ask for a donation to buy more equipment for the workshop, or charge $2 per person and use that money to make improvements. That should be an acceptable amount to get all that stuff done.

just an idea



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Re: We need to be efficient

Post by Speedster » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:58 am

I hope the Jig will more accurately make Pilot holes as opposed to simply running a nail in the holes. At least it would look more professional. I'd like to give the scouts every advantage I can since they showed interest in coming to the workshop. The young scouts and Adult helpers will learn the purpose of the tool and why it is used. I might have a second Jig coming which is really going to speed things up if we can get more helpers. At this point, I might come up with a very simple solution to achieve my goal which hopefully will help others. Time will tell.



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