World Record Run

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
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gpraceman
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World Record Run

Post by gpraceman »

Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Speedster »

It would be interesting to know the specs on the wining car and what the "standard pinewood derby rules" were.
Congratulations to the young man who made it all the way.
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FatSebastian
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Re: World Record Run

Post by FatSebastian »

Speedster wrote:It would be interesting to know... what the "standard pinewood derby rules" were...
I would guess the "standard rules" were the Rules in the Box. I came away wondering how the track materials were assembled, and how much a 600 ft track costs to make.
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whodathunkit
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Re: World Record Run

Post by whodathunkit »

FatSebastian wrote: I came away wondering how the track materials were assembled, and how much a 600 ft track costs to make.
According to the links above it's a plywood track and screws were used to assemble it.
Churchill also estimated the track construction took approximately 80 hours to build
at a cost of $ 2.000 with Moneys donated by individuals & a host of business & social organizations.

What I'd like to know is.. how long it took the green car to travel the 600 ft.

According to the link:
It took about 2 hours of running the cars for one of the cars to reach the end of the track.
And that the very car that reached the end was used in a different race 2013.

The rules in the box: say nothing about the car haveing to be made during the current year.
That rule in wording:
Comes in to play from useing the Cub Scout Grand Prix PWD Guidebook (BSA no.33721)
Shouldn't it also be seen in the rules in the box?
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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gpraceman
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Re: World Record Run

Post by gpraceman »

According to this story at least three cars made it down successfully.

http://www.stowetoday.com/stowe_reporte ... mode=story

Looks like some of the cars took a flying leap. :eek:

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Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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whodathunkit
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Re: World Record Run

Post by whodathunkit »

gpraceman wrote: Looks like some of the cars took a flying leap. :eek:
Yeah Randy,
The orange car see in the lower left of the photo Looks like it could be ...
The General Lee from the Dukes of Hazard or something!
It's hard to tell from the photo if it has a rebel flag or a STP decal on top of it.
Anyway just from looking at the photo and reading the links:
It looks like this race would have been a good one to watch in person.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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FatSebastian
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Re: World Record Run

Post by FatSebastian »

gpraceman wrote:Looks like some of the cars took a flying leap
It's a different kind of track to be sure! So what strategies would Derby Talker's employ in order to win (complete) a race on a track like this? :polling:
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whodathunkit
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Re: World Record Run

Post by whodathunkit »

FatSebastian wrote:It's a different kind of track to be sure! So what strategies would Derby Talker's employ in order to win (complete) a race on a track like this? :polling:
Well FS,
Just from looking at the photo of the track & seeing some sagging in between the joints
& not knowing if the guide rails have smooth sides or not.. I'd say Rail Rideing would be out.

I can't say if a Rail hugger type set up would work.. So I don't think I'd try for speed..
as I would concentrate my efforts more on just trying to keep the car on the track.
From the photo seen of the track it look's to be an all down hill slope with no flat.

So I'd have to say my strategies would have to be on the weight placement to help hold the car to the track to complete the 600 ft.. anyway that's my take on it.

Hopefuly more Derby Talker's will chime in with strategies on how to get to the end faster.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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Stan Pope
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Stan Pope »

My inclination would be to put positive camber on both front axles, but neutral toe or minimal toe-in on both. Negative camber on the rears. I'd lift one front wheel slightly or not ... probably doesn't make any difference.

Rationale:
The track is probably pretty rough with "iffy" rail alignment between sections. The track certainly has bad curvature at the joints, so, even with good guide alignment, there will be a tendency for the front to lift. Positive camber on front will create sideways thrust instead of upward thrust if the wheels hit a badly aligned rail.

I would have slightly indented front (or extended rears) and negative camber on the rears so as to keep the rears off the rail.

Weight distribution could make the difference on keeping the front down over the bad curvature transitions. So, first guess is about 30% of the weight on the front rather than the normal 5 to 19%.

If I thought that speeds would be too great to hold over the bad curvatures, I'd move the CM further forward to get about 50% of the weight front.

Dunno what the world record rules are ... but for about the same money, they could have had a 1200' 2-lane track ... almost 1/4 mile. :) A good time could be up around a minute.
Stan
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Darin McGrew
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Darin McGrew »

If fast cars are coming off the track, then perhaps it would help to design a slower car. Then the race becomes similar to a turtle race, where the goal isn't to build the fastest, most optimized car, but to build a slower car that still crosses the finish line.
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Stan Pope
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Stan Pope »

Darin McGrew wrote:If fast cars are coming off the track, then perhaps it would help to design a slower car. Then the race becomes similar to a turtle race, where the goal isn't to build the fastest, most optimized car, but to build a slower car that still crosses the finish line.
Well, maybe not that slow! :) After all, three cars did finish.

There must be a happy medium in there somewhere... maybe load all the wheels with lead! Or, if the "flat" is short enough, use that "white stuff" for lubricant. Or, maybe, skip the lube on the rears. Or rub the lifted front wheel on the rail (friction easily "tunable").

Now is your opportunity to share "turtle secrets", Darin! :)
Stan
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Re: World Record Run

Post by whodathunkit »

If we all stop to think about strategies here:

Chances are probably all the kids and adults have never seen a track set up like this one..
or even raced on one like it intell the very day of the race.
So it makes me wounder about the strategies that the three who did make it:
Incorporated into the car designs just from knowing the track would be made
and it would be 600 foot long.

Stan, now that we all have seen a photo of what the track looks like (strategies change.)
So would you also employ: A beveled nose design into the car.
To the under side of the nose to keep the front end from digging in on the bad curvatures.
Or would you also employ an even lowerd rear axle hight into your strategy as well.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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Stan Pope
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Stan Pope »

My concern is for the "whoop-dee-doos" at the track joins. If the car goes too fast over them, the car may lift partially off the track surface.

I think that the bad curvature is not enough to eat up the 1/8" of standard clearance. If it did rub at track joins, it would rub in the middle of the car.
Stan
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whodathunkit
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Re: World Record Run

Post by whodathunkit »

So a good car design strategy would be an arc shape car or arc shaped car bottom.

To keep the middle of the car from rubbing at the track joints if the curvature was bad enough to eat up all the clearance over the "woop-dee- doos".
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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Re: World Record Run

Post by Stan Pope »

whodathunkit wrote:So a good car design strategy would be an arc shape car or arc shaped car bottom.

To keep the middle of the car from rubbing at the track joints if the curvature was bad enough to eat up all the clearance over the "woop-dee- doos".
That would be an extremely conservative design to overcome worst case track conditions and suffer minimal loss of performance.
Stan
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