The West Coast Grand Prix

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
Post Reply
Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:24 pm

The 1st Annual West Coast Grand Prix is scheduled for March 7, 2020 It is giving junior high school students taking wood shop classes a chance to compete. Rafer Johnson Junior High School in Kingsburg, CA is the host school. Abraham Lincoln Middle School in Selma, CA is participating. That means over 100 students have the opportunity to compete in the very first event. We also have students from Sanger Unified that will compete.

I would like to personally invite you to race. There is something for everyone. Please explore http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com and contact me with any additional questions you might have.

The West Coast Grand Prix is already a national event. We have committed entries from New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania.



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:48 am

Eagle, I think I see a problem. There's a lot of very young children racing. You and I both know there's some certain people on Derbytalk, and across the nation, that are loaded with CASH. $45.00 for a nice set of 1 gram wheels and a few more dollars for some Stainless steel axles means nothing to them. Unless I'm reading the rules wrong, all those things are legal.

I think it would be a lot more fun for everyone if there was a class that had lots of limits on the wheels and axles. Maybe allow the wheels to be lathe turned but nothing else. No removing the step, no making them light. Hopefully, most folks could afford to have that done if they chose to do so. The BSA nail must be used. Separate the Graphite and Oil races for the youngsters. Doing this would show everyone how their car did compared to others across the USA. It would show what can be done using science instead of how much money someone is willing to spend. All you would need to do is insert a paragraph in the existing rules. The rules as they are now do not need to be changed.

Your thoughts.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:28 am

Speedster The rules a couple months and the builds have been started and maybe even completed. All I did was improve the experience of the site. You can view the original at https://sites.google.com/site/rjjhwoods ... notherpost

I've had rules changed on me after car was shipped, but before the race. Then it was raced "for fun". My entry fee was kept. That is not right. So, I'm not even going to consider rule changes for 2020.

If I had a staff of volunteers I could do more Speedster. Simple fact is that tighter restrictions means more tech. The only real way to determine if someone is running oil in a graphite class is to take car apart. No one enjoys pre tech tear down. And, post race requires a long gap between race finish and awards presentation. Current format should keep the temptation to cheat at bay.

While I agree with you that someone could out spend someone it doesn't mean they will win. Just like anything else you have to do your research and plan and prepare your build. A car running on oil that is not properly preped will be slower than a properly preped (top dollar) graphite car.

Your same argument could be made about tungsten vs lead...

And, the science is still the science. Last I checked the same theories are being applied to the $ products as not.

As to lessons, I want these kids to think. They need to also think about how and what to spend money on. What works and what doesn't.

Students in the Junior High Challenge have to build their cars in class. So, I get to see what they are up to. I think you would enjoy the constant questions on how to make their car faster.

Out of time my friend, but I hope this helps explain why the aforementioned rules are as they are for this year anyway.

PS Good luck getting a 1g wheel to perform under the existing rules.



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:05 pm

I wasn't suggesting any rule be changed. That's not necessary. The rules are fine. I was suggesting a Division be added so every scout in the Nation could send in their car and race under the same restrictive rules. Any car already built could sign up for any Division they qualify for. Most scout packs will have been run by the end of February and there's very few will go to a District race. Perhaps many might enjoy racing their scout car against the fastest in the nation.

It was just a thought. I cannot imagine how busy you must be and I do wish you the very best.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm

I have repeatedly asked Council for support. Even doing a flag ceremony would be nice. So far, nothing.

There is absolutely no reason why Scouts cannot participate under existing rules. This race is designed to be a lead into Mid America. And, we are running Mid America rules. Mid America runs more Scout cars than anywhere in the nation.

If you are simply suggesting a difference between oil and graphite:
1) As I said difficult to know for sure without pre race tear down.
2) At some point I believe many will switch to oil. Not because it is faster, but because it is cleaner. Graphite is a mess.

If there is enough interest I will run any class. I intend to add more classes /event(s) in year 2 (if I can get some sponsors to help out with needed items...) and hopefully some committed help.

So, please send me a complete list of your recommended rule set. Email might be best as there will likely be a huge debate over rules if done here.

And, please be sure that every Scout and racer knows about http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com

By the way my youngest said, "Daddy what about the people who don't have cars to race?" "How about we take the Hot Wheels Track?" So, there will also be a 6 lane Hot Wheels track. Kids can race their own or one of ours.



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:25 pm

I just studied the Mid America rules on wheels. One of the rules is "No altering the wheel profile" . Is intentionally removing material on the inside to lighten the wheel "altering the wheel profile"? Derby Evolution has a Mid America wheel that weighs 1.3 grams. It must be legal or he wouldn't make it.

All I wanted to see is, Open kids Graphite Division and Open kids Oil Division to use full weight wheels. That would take one sentence. "No material may be removed from the wheel to intentionally lighten the wheel." Are the scouts that are running those cars in the Mid America using cars that they raced in their scout races? I have never heard of any scout races that allowed lightened wheels. Maybe there is such a thing.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm

I would say more Scouts use the rules out of the box then anything else.

Wheel profile is different at MA because they allow all Official BSA wheels. If someone spends the time and hunts down wheels from the 80's there is no lettering on the side. So one could alter the wheel profile for less frontal aero profile. That is what the rule is referring to.

DE and others sell MA wheels. 1.3 (that are more like 1.4). That is not 1.0. To get to 1.0 you would have to eliminate markings to get to that weight.

SO, the science is telling you 1.4 g wheels will be faster than 2.62g (usually enforced somewhere around 2.4. Are you going to have judges eyeball? Or, remove and wheels?

Interesting you bring up removal from inside. What if you remove all from outside?

Some argue the science taller is better. Others argue the science of shorter is better.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:27 pm

As to axles, what if I use Scout axles, but do all the things a stainless axle has?
I've done it.
I've also done it on MV axles.
We have literally built Awana and Scout cars from all components out of the box and beat our own cars with paid axles and wheels.

I've also spent time with the girls and others with the Derby Worx hand lathe and shaved our own wheels.

I suggest that the only way you could possibly race as you suggest is if you have everyone strip naked, enter a room with only the kits and the same tools, after a designated time you race.

If you allow favorite tool or product the whole thing is tilted. If everyone doesn't have access to the same tools tilted.

But, mostly it is research and knowledge of what to do when and how to do it that will make a car faster than another. The rules would not be any more than the original Don Murphy rules if folks hadn't gotten creative over the years.

THe Vintage 1953 Class should be right up your alley. Are you going to enter one?



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:35 am

Nope. My woodworking skills are limited to cutting straight lines. I definitely am looking forward to seeing those Vintage cars. I hope pictures of them end up in museums.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:29 am

Guess I'll have to build a Vintage car using straight cuts.

You don't sand? - LOL



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:46 am

No Sanding. The sides and about 1/4" over the top get Flat Black with a sharpie. Duct tape is then used to cover the top and leave about 1/8" of black showing on the sides. Any decoration is then applied. I have 11 rolls of 150' Automotive striping tape - 1/8" - 1/8" space - 1/16". That's used for multiple things. I can use clamps if necessary at anytime in the build and I can't damage anything. Duct tape is tough. Even if I did I'd just remove the tape and replace it. I sometimes do that anyway if I decide to change colors. I have no place to spray paint in the Winter because of the cold. I like working with the duct tape and it's cheap. Walmart has lots of it. All my cars are either slim wedges or a Hershey bar shape. The same is true of the Special Scout I work with each year. The scout can paint his/her car if they choose. Paint never gets in my way and I never need to worry about damaging anything. How many cars have you ever seen with striping tape? You can use it as it is on the roll or use the 1/8" ;piece or 1/16" piece separately. Give it a try. Your children will love playing with it. What colors do they like? I'll send you some to play with.



Eagle
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:03 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Eagle » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:48 pm

Not sure if you are talking about students or my girls.
I know I have been looking for some two stripe Charcoal Grey Metallic. Do you have any silver metallic or chrome?
Vanessa Red then Teal
Jennifer Purple then turquoise
Of course they both like pink. Wait till you see Jennifer's 2020 MA car.
Red is always cool!



Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: The West Coast Grand Prix

Post by Speedster » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:56 pm

Your daughters. I sent you some pictures.



Post Reply