non for profit info ! 990 forms, fees ? excess ! BSA

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
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sporty
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non for profit info ! 990 forms, fees ? excess ! BSA

Post by sporty »

Perhaps I am looking to much into this, But I was thinking back at are council race this year. The trophies were smaller than usual.

My first asumption was that the economoy played a role in the budget of the race. Naturally forgeting all about the $35 fee each pack much pay for there kids to race at council.

Not having a good idea on just how many packs race at are council race. But having a good feeling that its like over 30 packs.

Thats about $2100.00 of entry fees.

I do not know what the cost is to rent the site, or if its donated to be used. Naturally soem costs of food supplies, that mostly get sold that day.

Then the cost of trophies for the kids. Which i have bought trophies before, good size and many for the cubmobile race. 64 trophies, all 6 inch and 20 trophies that were upto 14 inches tall. The grand total was only about $400.00

Many of the trophies were on average $6.00 to $12.00 and the bigger ones were from $12.00 to $20.00. This included engraving and a nice figure.


So I am thinking the council gives out like 70/80 trophies. Many of them the same size on what we used for cubmobile. In cubmobile everyone got a trophy. I know if you make the semi finals you get a .50cent ribbon.


In previous council years, the trophies were bigger and of good size, They also have sponsors pay like $100 or $200 to do enter for a sponsor race.

There is naturally some things Im leaving out or forgetting.

But I am only really seeing a modest price of $800 in trophies at a high end estimate. Then with my 30 packs entering , based on the total fee of $2100.00.


So before I get into asuming things. How many who run a council race or help run a council race can chime in on what the costs / versus prophet ratio is ?

I'm curious on the smaller trophies, versus the $$$ brought in for the fees the pack sends off to council for the race. compared to the larger trophies from the previous years.

i'll await some of your thoughts and replies and perhaps from are council area can post also.


Sporty
Last edited by sporty on Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by Stan Pope »

Depending on your location, there are probably more than 30 packs in your council, but that might be how many packs participate.

Check your multiplication ... 30 packs at $35 each is about $1050.

In budgeting, it is usual to estimate the number of registrants and the projected costs including clerical, postage, rents (facilities and equipment), recognitions, and insurance, then add a percentage (about 10%) to cover the professional's participation and another percentage (also about 10%) contingency ... to cover the things that the chairman forgot to include.

In the past it has not been uncommon for the value of donations, especially from commercial sources, to be treated as donations to the council (so that they are valid as tax deductions) rather than being used to offset event costs. (This also avoids year-to-year fluctuations in registration fees.) My personal opinion is that "seeking a donation with the implication that it helps provide PWD for the boys" has some ethical problems, and I hope that the practice has either stopped or has become transparently forthright.
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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by sporty »

I must have hit a button wrong on the old calculator. Thanks for catching that.

I think you mentioned what I was more or less thinking, more and more, it has become about money, donations, sponsors, $$$, turn a profit for a event.

Granted, packs need money to function and council does also. But the big friends of scouting push, which most of that money does not end up going to the pack or even a percentage that I'm awhare of. makes most of the money going elsewhere.

The big popcorn and sales of goodie drives, seems to be getting out of hand also these days. Its a big push anymore.

It use to be packs were lucky to have a few hundred dollars, now its the drive to have a few grand in the account.

I think alot of this has came down, to training, they get paid or reimbursed for there scout training or extra training. The money can be used for that.

Some of that is week long, which is almost like a mini vacation for these people.

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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by Mr. Slick »

The NorthernStar Council doesn't have any entry fees. . . we also only have $1000 budget for the entire event. Last year we awarded 50 trophies and pretty much wiped out the entire budget. That means that I forgot to include the postage for the invites to all of the kids from the district races, insurance for the MOA, printing for fliers for announcements, and all the other real costs that were incurred.

Also, the adult training that you refer to as a "mini vacation" implies that you haven't been to very much training. Take Wood Badge as a common example of the week or multiple weekend training. While it can be fun and build strong friendships, it is very hard work for 16 hours a day during the training and then for the following months/years that the participants are working on their tickets(a list of things they have promised to do to improve themselves and scouting) before they get recognized for completing the training.

Friends of Scouting provides for the lots of the costs of the scouting program. The last numbers I saw were $171 per scout per year as the actual cost, not the $10 registration fee. Please contact your District Executive or the FOS Chair for detailed information in your area.

There is no profit in the Scouting Program other than what individual boys/units earn through their own fund raising for their activities.
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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by sporty »

Mr. Slick,

Every council / district and pack is different.

Then yes we will run into different points of view. I personally would not take pack / kids earned money to pay for my training.

Reimbursement for gas / mileage is not something I would except.

Not all training classes are 16 hour days either. I am also refering to elective training not so much mandatory training.

Then as you mentioned, no fees are charged for your event, That is just on of the differances that is good to here and know about. As many packs and so forth, are different.

A also often wondered if council or a district should pay for the mandatory training. Not so much paid out by the local pack.

As for friends of scouting $$$, I honestly have never seen that go directly towards the local pack.

This is the kind of input that is what I want to hear about.

I can assure you from my inner dealings with a pack, that event choices and options, were at times based on how much money the event could bring in, after costs for running the event.

If it could not turn a profit, then sometimes the event was not approved to happen. This now is not the case for all activities. Some are break even or at a loss.

Yes the percentage that the kids are getting for there sales, that goes into a account for them, to help cover the fees or costs of there activities, clothing, scout book, ect.

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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by sporty »

http://www.guidestar.com" target="_blank, offers the 990 info for them and many of the bsa.

The national heaquarters out of irving texas.


Some brief info.

$6 mil in working cash on hand, 2007 form data

total monies brought in $183,314,730.

Total spent $155,066,777.

Access balance for the end of the year- ready for this number !!



They saw about a net profit of 10 million for the year of 2007.

There over all surplus account balance for 2007 was -

$687,080,426.

528 employees make over $50,000 a year. 9 employees make from $87,000 to $234,000. 1 makes $487,594 a year !

5 other directors range from $238,000 to $280,000 a year.


So to much in detail to list all the other stuff. I am also no pro on all the data, but perhaps someone who has interest to read the 990 non profit data info. can take a look.

My thoughts, there is easily a few extra millions there to trickle a little down to the local pack level.

Sporty
Last edited by sporty on Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by Stan Pope »

Just a couple of points to raise...

1. Adult training comes in two flavors: Volunteer Development and Professional Development. There are fees for each. Volunteers typically pay to attend training. The Council budget pays for Professional Development for its employees. When I attended Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge, I paid the registration fee plus my transportation (260 miles each way). Same when I attended Boy Scout Leader WB ... closer to home, but three weekends at 100 miles per round trip. That said, I suspect that the cost to provide the WB training was not fully offset by the registration fees. As a trainer I know that there are a lot of "unofficial donations" beyond trainer's time that go into filling out the course content.

Newly hired District Executives are expected to complete several stages of "Professional Development" training. Like all the job-required training I received while working for Caterpillar, the DE's training expenses (registration, travel, living) for required training are paid by the employer. Those are proper Council expenses!

2. Councils don't get any of the annual membership registration fees ... those all go to National Council. In addition, the council itself pops for its own (not insignificant) annual registration fee! (For our medium-sized council, the last annual registration I saw was in 5 figures.) Funding local Council operations and events is a delicate balance of event fees, fund raising, and donations. My personal opinion is that youth events should be self supporting and, on average, neither make nor lose money for the council, and the cost of the events should be born by those who benefit from the events. The council can help by carrying the over-budget losses, recouping the losses in future events, and teaching the event organizers how to budget more accurately.
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Re: Fees for racing ? packs to council fees

Post by sporty »

I took a glance at my area council 990 info.

I will not mention the name,

but here is what I see, so far.

2007 990 form, total income.

$2,742.865.

total exspenses for the year -$2,205.488

surplus for that year was $537,377.

overall net surplus $5,946.569, in savings, bank account, ect.


From what I can see also, on line 25a, about $100,00 for salaries, but online 26, there is about $947,00 for salaries also.

Pension plan about $44,000 paid to or in for pension plan for the that year.

Health ins looks to be about $98,000

The director's assitances, execs, makes plus $60,000 to $72,000 a year.about 4 people. The main exec is plus $96,000 for wages.

I can assure you, that this is a pretty good wage for the area council.

I am simply a little shocked here, that so many are making so much money in a cub scout / boy scout org.

It seems to be if there is a money issue, its due too, so many making so much money !

$500.000 left over at the end of the year for 07. Sure does seem like there was penty to cover a wide variety of needs for the local packs and ther kids.

Then About 5 million in reserve. wow !
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