Science Fair

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
Post Reply
User avatar
Husker
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 9:16 pm
Location: Whitmore Lake, MI
Contact:

Science Fair

Post by Husker »

I'm working with first year Webelos (4th grade boys). Their school science fair is Feb 24th. The SF committee has done a poor job of getting information and details out. As such, I suspect that none of my Scouts have started their projects. I'm going to offer to help the Scouts with their projects based on PWD.

I need ideas on some experiments. A couple ideas that come are:
  • The weight of cars - make cars and time them at 4oz, 5oz and 6oz.
  • Different starting positions - Time the cars starting the top of the hill, 3/4 down, half way and a 1/4.
  • Center of mass - build cars so center of mass can moved from the front, to the center, or the rear.
  • Friction of wheels - Use regular wheels and wheels that have most of the tread surface removes like razor wheels.
I have 10 Scouts and all could possibly be interested so 10 ideas would be great (I have a feeling this group could come up with a couple hundred ideas :idea:). As a thank you, I will take some pictures and post their results.
Jason Henning

Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.
User avatar
drathbun
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:50 pm
Location: Carrollton, Texas

Re: Science Fair

Post by drathbun »

My older son did his science project on weight placement, and it worked really well. Here's a picture of the car we used:

Image

Very simple, really. We drilled holes for one side and used slots for the other, just so the wheels were equally distant from the end of the block. The holes drilled in the top were all centered, and the proper size for tungsten 1/2 ounce cylinders. We raced the car without weights, with weights in the front, and with weights in the rear.

The same style of car could be used to check variances in weight. In fact I'm going to drill extra holes in this block and use it for that the next time our track is set up. Both of these ideas are really simple, but will have obvious results.

Another experiment I was going to try would be to see how much impact the frontal area has on speed. I was going to slice a 1/4" off of the top of a block, and then attach it on the front with a hinge. I would have a series of holes drilled through the center of the block (much like the car shown above) but in this case it would be positions for a dowel (peg). The first race would be flat, and for each subsequent trial I would raise the top part up and rest it on the peg. As the peg moves forward, the top slice would rise up more and more. The idea would be to see how much impact wind resistance has. There is also a slight weight variance as the peg moves forward, and I haven't quite figured out how to address than other than to try to make the peg as light weight as possible compared to the rest of the car weight. Basically make it "good enough" for a kid science project even if it's not super precise. :) I haven't run this one, so I can't see if the difference would be significant enough to be measurable.
User avatar
5kidsracing
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Bettendorf, Iowa
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by 5kidsracing »

The science fair at our elementary school is voluntary for all grades but 6th grade. My kids have always made a science fair projects, but this year my 6th grader is going to test the effect of weight vs. speed with a pwd car. Drarthbun, my Son will make a car similar to the one your Son's made for weight placement. I have a bunch of 1/2 ounce, 3/8" brass rounds we will add one at a time and record the results. I have always read that around 9 ounces is the most weight you can add to a pwd car and then after that is starts slowing down. I am curious what the results will be! I will post them after it is all done.
For my "Pinewood Story" go to: http://5kidsracing.webs.com/index.htm
User avatar
drathbun
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:50 pm
Location: Carrollton, Texas

Re: Science Fair

Post by drathbun »

I'm rethinking my aero-test car, thinking I can attach a wire with notches bent into it to the back and just flip the pivot board up into a different notch. That would keep the weight largely the same as far as front to back, and would be more stable as well. I want to try to build that before our "test-n-tune" before the district derby, and will post pictures once I have something built.
User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6856
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by Stan Pope »

drathbun wrote:I'm rethinking my aero-test car, thinking I can attach a wire with notches bent into it to the back and just flip the pivot board up into a different notch. That would keep the weight largely the same as far as front to back, and would be more stable as well. I want to try to build that before our "test-n-tune" before the district derby, and will post pictures once I have something built.
Cory used various sizes of cardboard mounted on the car with the flat side forward. I think he cut a groove across the top of the car in which the cardboard was a press fit. Cardboard is so light that weight may not be an issue. You can also test the effect of more than one piece, one behind the next.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
User avatar
FatSebastian
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 2818
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Boogerton, PA

Re: Science Fair

Post by FatSebastian »

Stan Pope wrote:Cory used various sizes of cardboard mounted on the car with the flat side forward.
This approach was also taken in the Physics of the Pinewood Derby video. Unfortunately, a vertical flat-plate ("sail brake") creates a highly unrealistic drag profile for a PWD car.

I would then prefer the idea of a tilting an adjustable lightweight plate. Or for an ambitious tike, one might construct hollow replaceable hulls (think papier-mâché or heated plastic sheeting formed over clay or wood models) that ride atop a plank.
User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6856
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by Stan Pope »

FatSebastian wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:Cory used various sizes of cardboard mounted on the car with the flat side forward.
This approach was also taken in the Physics of the Pinewood Derby video. Unfortunately, a vertical flat-plate ("sail brake") creates a highly unrealistic drag profile for a PWD car.

I would then prefer the idea of a tilting an adjustable lightweight plate. Or for an ambitious tike, one might construct hollow replaceable hulls (think papier-mâché or heated plastic sheeting formed over clay or wood models) that ride atop a plank.
Were any other of Cory's test conditions included in the video?
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
User avatar
FatSebastian
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 2818
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Boogerton, PA

Re: Science Fair

Post by FatSebastian »

Stan Pope wrote:Were any other of Cory's test conditions included in the video?
If there was, I don't recall them. IIRC, the point of Dr. Acton's air-drag demonstration was to simply chart an empirical relationship between cross-sectional area and elapsed time, demonstrating that a smaller cross-section proved more desirable than a larger one.
BallBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: SoJo, UT
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by BallBoy »

I can think of a couple of things that would be testable.

1. Test different wheelbases. Various axle holes could be drilled in a car to alter the wheelbase. You may want to consider a moveable weight to keep the same COM in relation to the rear axles, but for a 4th grade science fair project, this could be a variable you could ignore.
2. Test different wheel diameters. Since pinewood derby wheel diameters don't vary too much you might have to reach into the world of model airplanes to get various sized wheels. Try various diameters from 1" to 3".
User avatar
Noskills
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Science Fair

Post by Noskills »

How about learning to calculate acceleration and deceleration with a stopwatch and PWD car.
Noskils
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
User avatar
Darin McGrew
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1825
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:23 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by Darin McGrew »

BallBoy wrote:1. Test different wheelbases. Various axle holes could be drilled in a car to alter the wheelbase. You may want to consider a moveable weight to keep the same COM in relation to the rear axles, but for a 4th grade science fair project, this could be a variable you could ignore.
2. Test different wheel diameters. Since pinewood derby wheel diameters don't vary too much you might have to reach into the world of model airplanes to get various sized wheels. Try various diameters from 1" to 3".
Getting a good control would be difficult when testing different wheelbases. You'd want to be able to change only the wheelbase, without changing anything else (alignment, aerodynamics, wheel/axle prep, etc.).

Testing different diameters might work, if you had a supply of wheels with different diameters, but the same bore size. And you'd need to decide whether you're keeping the mass of the wheel constant, or whether you're keeping the angular inertial of the wheel constant, or something else.
macd
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: North Carolina, US

Re: Science Fair

Post by macd »

Very cool idea!

Some other project ideas:
Compare different lubes: some subset of: none, fine graphite, course graphite, graphite+Moly, oil
straight axles vs. canted axles
straight runner vs. rail runner
results of higher vs. lower starting heights
adding grooves to axles
lightening (or adding weight) to wheels
3 wheels vs 4 wheels touching
quick start fronts (or cheater bars)
shock absorbers (e.g. put added weight on top of neoprene)
rpcarpe
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Huntsville, Alabama

Re: Science Fair

Post by rpcarpe »

For a PWD demo, you could have a variety of cars with a variety of techiniques used.
I did this, raced a bare block against increasingly complicated builds. Let the kids race them, and they discover what makes a car fast.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
BallBoy
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: SoJo, UT
Contact:

Re: Science Fair

Post by BallBoy »

Darin McGrew wrote:Getting a good control would be difficult when testing different wheelbases. You'd want to be able to change only the wheelbase, without changing anything else (alignment, aerodynamics, wheel/axle prep, etc.).

Testing different diameters might work, if you had a supply of wheels with different diameters, but the same bore size. And you'd need to decide whether you're keeping the mass of the wheel constant, or whether you're keeping the angular inertial of the wheel constant, or something else.
I completely agree with Darin's comments. My suggestion was given in the context of a 4th grade science fair project, where much of the purpose of the project is to teach the scientific method and not necesarily find new scientific discoveries.

One way you could minimize some of the alignment, aerodynamic, etc. variables is to expand the test subject population. For example, if three identical cars with a 4" wheel base, given random wheel/axle alignment, are significantly faster or slower than the same cars with a 6" wheel base, then one could conclude that the change in wheelbase had more of an impact than the other variables.
Post Reply